▲ 591 ▼ Personalized Political Spectrum (lemmy.world) submitted 4 months ago by MTZ@lemmy.world to c/lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world 249 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] deranger@sh.itjust.works 22 points 4 months ago (1 child) Authoritarian / libertarian is on a completely different axis from left / right, no? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Mr_Fish@lemmy.world 73 points 4 months ago (3 children) Only on the political compass, which uses a definition of left vs right that a lot of leftists disagree with. Really, the entire history of "left wing" politics has been about questioning and dismantling authority. The terms "left wing" and "right wing" come from the French revolution, when the people in favour of simply reforming the monarchy sat on the right side of the room, while the people who wanted to fully dismantling the monarchy sat on the left. A lot of more modern leftist thought is about questioning the power that capitalist businesses have. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] deranger@sh.itjust.works 6 points 4 months ago (1 child) Well said. Still; can you not have authoritarian left and libertarian left viewpoints? I just don’t see how questioning the power capitalist businesses have is limited to the libertarian left. What’s wrong with the definition of left & right on the political compass? I’m not super tuned into political science but this is the first I’ve heard that many leftists have take issue with it. I have seen the authoritarian left referred to as “red fascists”, but do they not also take issue with the power capitalist businesses have? I suppose I’d consider myself a left libertarian. The power of the state should be limited and what power is granted to the state should be used to improve the life of the people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Mr_Fish@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago (1 child) can you not have auth left and lib left viewpoints? Yes, but actually no. The distinction is fundamentally unstable. If the left is constantly questioning power structures, it will inevitably turn to whatever structure the auth left comes up with. what's wrong with the definition of left and right on the political compass? It's specially economic left/right, which is almost always defined by taxation, government spending, and social welfare. While leftists usually say social welfare is a good thing, it's not changing the fundamentals of how capitalism works, which is the current dominant power structure that leftists are against. do auth left not also take issue with the power capitalist businesses have? Yes, but they usually put something just as bad in its place. You might have heard people saying that the USSR was "state capitalist rather than communist". This means that the workers and customers had just as little say in how things are run than they would under capitalists, only is was directly with the state rather than individual business owners. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] deranger@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 months ago Thanks, I appreciate your replies. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Drusas@fedia.io 4 points 4 months ago Very well said, thank you. permalink fedilink source parent [–] j_overgrens@feddit.nl 2 points 4 months ago Worthwile to note here that the left of the French revolution, the Jacobins, did develop authoritarianism. Which should have been a warning sign for all leftists to come, but alas... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Mr_Fish@lemmy.world 73 points 4 months ago (3 children) Only on the political compass, which uses a definition of left vs right that a lot of leftists disagree with. Really, the entire history of "left wing" politics has been about questioning and dismantling authority. The terms "left wing" and "right wing" come from the French revolution, when the people in favour of simply reforming the monarchy sat on the right side of the room, while the people who wanted to fully dismantling the monarchy sat on the left. A lot of more modern leftist thought is about questioning the power that capitalist businesses have. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] deranger@sh.itjust.works 6 points 4 months ago (1 child) Well said. Still; can you not have authoritarian left and libertarian left viewpoints? I just don’t see how questioning the power capitalist businesses have is limited to the libertarian left. What’s wrong with the definition of left & right on the political compass? I’m not super tuned into political science but this is the first I’ve heard that many leftists have take issue with it. I have seen the authoritarian left referred to as “red fascists”, but do they not also take issue with the power capitalist businesses have? I suppose I’d consider myself a left libertarian. The power of the state should be limited and what power is granted to the state should be used to improve the life of the people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Mr_Fish@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago (1 child) can you not have auth left and lib left viewpoints? Yes, but actually no. The distinction is fundamentally unstable. If the left is constantly questioning power structures, it will inevitably turn to whatever structure the auth left comes up with. what's wrong with the definition of left and right on the political compass? It's specially economic left/right, which is almost always defined by taxation, government spending, and social welfare. While leftists usually say social welfare is a good thing, it's not changing the fundamentals of how capitalism works, which is the current dominant power structure that leftists are against. do auth left not also take issue with the power capitalist businesses have? Yes, but they usually put something just as bad in its place. You might have heard people saying that the USSR was "state capitalist rather than communist". This means that the workers and customers had just as little say in how things are run than they would under capitalists, only is was directly with the state rather than individual business owners. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] deranger@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 months ago Thanks, I appreciate your replies. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Drusas@fedia.io 4 points 4 months ago Very well said, thank you. permalink fedilink source parent [–] j_overgrens@feddit.nl 2 points 4 months ago Worthwile to note here that the left of the French revolution, the Jacobins, did develop authoritarianism. Which should have been a warning sign for all leftists to come, but alas... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] deranger@sh.itjust.works 6 points 4 months ago (1 child) Well said. Still; can you not have authoritarian left and libertarian left viewpoints? I just don’t see how questioning the power capitalist businesses have is limited to the libertarian left. What’s wrong with the definition of left & right on the political compass? I’m not super tuned into political science but this is the first I’ve heard that many leftists have take issue with it. I have seen the authoritarian left referred to as “red fascists”, but do they not also take issue with the power capitalist businesses have? I suppose I’d consider myself a left libertarian. The power of the state should be limited and what power is granted to the state should be used to improve the life of the people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Mr_Fish@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago (1 child) can you not have auth left and lib left viewpoints? Yes, but actually no. The distinction is fundamentally unstable. If the left is constantly questioning power structures, it will inevitably turn to whatever structure the auth left comes up with. what's wrong with the definition of left and right on the political compass? It's specially economic left/right, which is almost always defined by taxation, government spending, and social welfare. While leftists usually say social welfare is a good thing, it's not changing the fundamentals of how capitalism works, which is the current dominant power structure that leftists are against. do auth left not also take issue with the power capitalist businesses have? Yes, but they usually put something just as bad in its place. You might have heard people saying that the USSR was "state capitalist rather than communist". This means that the workers and customers had just as little say in how things are run than they would under capitalists, only is was directly with the state rather than individual business owners. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] deranger@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 months ago Thanks, I appreciate your replies. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Mr_Fish@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago (1 child) can you not have auth left and lib left viewpoints? Yes, but actually no. The distinction is fundamentally unstable. If the left is constantly questioning power structures, it will inevitably turn to whatever structure the auth left comes up with. what's wrong with the definition of left and right on the political compass? It's specially economic left/right, which is almost always defined by taxation, government spending, and social welfare. While leftists usually say social welfare is a good thing, it's not changing the fundamentals of how capitalism works, which is the current dominant power structure that leftists are against. do auth left not also take issue with the power capitalist businesses have? Yes, but they usually put something just as bad in its place. You might have heard people saying that the USSR was "state capitalist rather than communist". This means that the workers and customers had just as little say in how things are run than they would under capitalists, only is was directly with the state rather than individual business owners. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] deranger@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 months ago Thanks, I appreciate your replies. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] deranger@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 months ago Thanks, I appreciate your replies. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Drusas@fedia.io 4 points 4 months ago Very well said, thank you. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] j_overgrens@feddit.nl 2 points 4 months ago Worthwile to note here that the left of the French revolution, the Jacobins, did develop authoritarianism. Which should have been a warning sign for all leftists to come, but alas... permalink fedilink source parent
