▲ 478 ▼ Man who shot a British woman in Texas after 'arguing about Donald Trump' won’t face criminal charges. A grand jury declined to indict him. (www.bbc.com) submitted 6 months ago* by Valnerion@sh.itjust.works to c/world@lemmy.world 57 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] EgoNo4@lemmy.world 118 points 6 months ago (6 children) Could someone please explain to me how the fuck do you kill someone, even if it's manslaughter, and not get tried over it? permalink fedilink source hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] TheRealKuni@piefed.social 100 points 6 months ago It was an honor killing because she spoke against the Dear Leader. That’s legal in Texas, haven’t you heard? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 41 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) Grand jury, not regular jury, which likely consists of rich white men that's a holdover from Jim crow. Prosecutors who agree with the defendent and intentionally try for charges they know won't stay. Texas. permalink fedilink source parent [–] EgoNo4@lemmy.world 19 points 6 months ago (3 children) No, I'm serious, please eli5... Where I'm from, murder + suspect = a trial... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TribblesBestFriend@startrek.website 33 points 6 months ago (2 children) I think the grand jury rule it an accidental discharge (because it’s Texas) and it’s how you kill somebody without being held accountable permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip 32 points 6 months ago (2 children) That would still qualify as manslaughter. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] krashmo@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago (1 child) I'm a man and I'm not laughing. You don't have to say it, I was already leaving. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Tm12@lemmy.ca 10 points 6 months ago Took me too long but come back so I can tell you to get outta here. permalink fedilink source parent [–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 7 points 6 months ago (1 child) If the prosecutor tries you for the wrong charge they're usually not allowed to try again with a lesser charge permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip 6 points 6 months ago (1 child) They can if this never got past the grand jury. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 months ago It's extremely uncommon for them to try, but Trump is normalizing it permalink fedilink source parent [–] otp@sh.itjust.works 23 points 6 months ago That's insane. Sure, an accidental discharge is an accident. Whatever. Pointing the gun in the direction that an accidental discharge would kill somebody is a guilty act. And having the gun loaded should be, too. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children) The grand jury is an extension of the district attorney’s office. When a crime is suspected of being committed, the district attorney brings the evidence to a grand jury. Then the grand jury decides if the case can proceed to trial. It’s basically step 0 in the judicial process. The prosecutor has a lot of discretion in what evidence the grand jury sees. They can do things like include evidence that they know won’t stand up in court, or intentionally exclude exculpatory evidence (that would prove the suspect’s innocence). Additionally, there is no defense attorney at the grand jury. Nobody has been charged with a crime yet, so the suspect can’t even defend themselves. The old joke among defense attorneys is that the grand jury would indict a ham sandwich for murder if the DA wanted them to. The point of the grand jury is for the prosecutor to go “do I have enough evidence to go to trial?” They’re not deciding guilt. They’re just deciding if it’s even worth trying to prosecute a suspect. So the threshold for evidence is very low. On paper, the grand jury is meant to prevent frivolous charges and protect clearly innocent suspects. If the grand jury decides there is enough evidence to go to trial, then the suspect is officially charged with a crime and the entire arrest+trial part of the prosecution kicks off. But in reality, it is often just used as a scapegoat by the district attorney. The grand jury is anonymous, which makes them very convenient as a scapegoat. As far as the public is concerned, the grand jury is just a sort of massless, faceless blob. The DA is typically an elected position, which means they need to keep the public’s wants in mind. And this can come into conflict with the job, when they have a politically inconvenient case. For example, let’s say a cop kills someone in broad daylight, surrounded by bystander recordings. The public is out for blood. But the police union has privately told the DA that if charges get pressed, the cops will collectively stop cooperating as witnesses and won’t collect evidence at crime scenes. Functionally making the DA’s job impossible. So the DA uses the grand jury as a scapegoat. They refuse to bring any evidence (because again, they can choose to exclude evidence), and then the grand jury refuses to indict because they were given no evidence. Then the DA jumps in front of the news cameras and goes “I tried my best, and I brought the case to the grand jury! But the big mean grand jury refused to indict! Remember that I’m fighting for you. Vote for me!” And the grand jury (as a faceless blob) can’t defend themselves and go “hey uhh, we would have indicted that cop if the DA brought any evidence…” permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] EgoNo4@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago Thank you. permalink fedilink source parent [–] stylusmobilus@aussie.zone 1 point 6 months ago Thanks for that effort, appreciated. Again today I’m thankful I don’t live there. permalink fedilink source parent [+] SARGE@startrek.website 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] Zephorah@discuss.online 15 points 6 months ago Since the Kirk shooting there has been a violent eruption of “we are done with you”, right to left. We are not to be discussed or argued with henceforth, only removed, by whatever means. This is the rhetoric. Clearly, it is more than rhetoric. permalink fedilink source parent [–] whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works 12 points 6 months ago (1 child) Because it's okay, he still has 2 more daughters 👍 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] INHALE_VEGETABLES@aussie.zone 1 point 6 months ago To be fair you only really need one. permalink fedilink source parent [–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago the lightest charge, wrongful death, is civil. not criminal permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TheRealKuni@piefed.social 100 points 6 months ago It was an honor killing because she spoke against the Dear Leader. That’s legal in Texas, haven’t you heard? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 41 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) Grand jury, not regular jury, which likely consists of rich white men that's a holdover from Jim crow. Prosecutors who agree with the defendent and intentionally try for charges they know won't stay. Texas. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] EgoNo4@lemmy.world 19 points 6 months ago (3 children) No, I'm serious, please eli5... Where I'm from, murder + suspect = a trial... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TribblesBestFriend@startrek.website 33 points 6 months ago (2 children) I think the grand jury rule it an accidental discharge (because it’s Texas) and it’s how you kill somebody without being held accountable permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip 32 points 6 months ago (2 children) That would still qualify as manslaughter. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] krashmo@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago (1 child) I'm a man and I'm not laughing. You don't have to say it, I was already leaving. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Tm12@lemmy.ca 10 points 6 months ago Took me too long but come back so I can tell you to get outta here. permalink fedilink source parent [–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 7 points 6 months ago (1 child) If the prosecutor tries you for the wrong charge they're usually not allowed to try again with a lesser charge permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip 6 points 6 months ago (1 child) They can if this never got past the grand jury. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 months ago It's extremely uncommon for them to try, but Trump is normalizing it permalink fedilink source parent [–] otp@sh.itjust.works 23 points 6 months ago That's insane. Sure, an accidental discharge is an accident. Whatever. Pointing the gun in the direction that an accidental discharge would kill somebody is a guilty act. And having the gun loaded should be, too. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children) The grand jury is an extension of the district attorney’s office. When a crime is suspected of being committed, the district attorney brings the evidence to a grand jury. Then the grand jury decides if the case can proceed to trial. It’s basically step 0 in the judicial process. The prosecutor has a lot of discretion in what evidence the grand jury sees. They can do things like include evidence that they know won’t stand up in court, or intentionally exclude exculpatory evidence (that would prove the suspect’s innocence). Additionally, there is no defense attorney at the grand jury. Nobody has been charged with a crime yet, so the suspect can’t even defend themselves. The old joke among defense attorneys is that the grand jury would indict a ham sandwich for murder if the DA wanted them to. The point of the grand jury is for the prosecutor to go “do I have enough evidence to go to trial?” They’re not deciding guilt. They’re just deciding if it’s even worth trying to prosecute a suspect. So the threshold for evidence is very low. On paper, the grand jury is meant to prevent frivolous charges and protect clearly innocent suspects. If the grand jury decides there is enough evidence to go to trial, then the suspect is officially charged with a crime and the entire arrest+trial part of the prosecution kicks off. But in reality, it is often just used as a scapegoat by the district attorney. The grand jury is anonymous, which makes them very convenient as a scapegoat. As far as the public is concerned, the grand jury is just a sort of massless, faceless blob. The DA is typically an elected position, which means they need to keep the public’s wants in mind. And this can come into conflict with the job, when they have a politically inconvenient case. For example, let’s say a cop kills someone in broad daylight, surrounded by bystander recordings. The public is out for blood. But the police union has privately told the DA that if charges get pressed, the cops will collectively stop cooperating as witnesses and won’t collect evidence at crime scenes. Functionally making the DA’s job impossible. So the DA uses the grand jury as a scapegoat. They refuse to bring any evidence (because again, they can choose to exclude evidence), and then the grand jury refuses to indict because they were given no evidence. Then the DA jumps in front of the news cameras and goes “I tried my best, and I brought the case to the grand jury! But the big mean grand jury refused to indict! Remember that I’m fighting for you. Vote for me!” And the grand jury (as a faceless blob) can’t defend themselves and go “hey uhh, we would have indicted that cop if the DA brought any evidence…” permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] EgoNo4@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago Thank you. permalink fedilink source parent [–] stylusmobilus@aussie.zone 1 point 6 months ago Thanks for that effort, appreciated. Again today I’m thankful I don’t live there. permalink fedilink source parent [+] SARGE@startrek.website 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TribblesBestFriend@startrek.website 33 points 6 months ago (2 children) I think the grand jury rule it an accidental discharge (because it’s Texas) and it’s how you kill somebody without being held accountable permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip 32 points 6 months ago (2 children) That would still qualify as manslaughter. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] krashmo@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago (1 child) I'm a man and I'm not laughing. You don't have to say it, I was already leaving. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Tm12@lemmy.ca 10 points 6 months ago Took me too long but come back so I can tell you to get outta here. permalink fedilink source parent [–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 7 points 6 months ago (1 child) If the prosecutor tries you for the wrong charge they're usually not allowed to try again with a lesser charge permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip 6 points 6 months ago (1 child) They can if this never got past the grand jury. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 months ago It's extremely uncommon for them to try, but Trump is normalizing it permalink fedilink source parent [–] otp@sh.itjust.works 23 points 6 months ago That's insane. Sure, an accidental discharge is an accident. Whatever. Pointing the gun in the direction that an accidental discharge would kill somebody is a guilty act. And having the gun loaded should be, too. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip 32 points 6 months ago (2 children) That would still qualify as manslaughter. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] krashmo@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago (1 child) I'm a man and I'm not laughing. You don't have to say it, I was already leaving. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Tm12@lemmy.ca 10 points 6 months ago Took me too long but come back so I can tell you to get outta here. permalink fedilink source parent [–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 7 points 6 months ago (1 child) If the prosecutor tries you for the wrong charge they're usually not allowed to try again with a lesser charge permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip 6 points 6 months ago (1 child) They can if this never got past the grand jury. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 months ago It's extremely uncommon for them to try, but Trump is normalizing it permalink fedilink source parent
[–] krashmo@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago (1 child) I'm a man and I'm not laughing. You don't have to say it, I was already leaving. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Tm12@lemmy.ca 10 points 6 months ago Took me too long but come back so I can tell you to get outta here. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Tm12@lemmy.ca 10 points 6 months ago Took me too long but come back so I can tell you to get outta here. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 7 points 6 months ago (1 child) If the prosecutor tries you for the wrong charge they're usually not allowed to try again with a lesser charge permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip 6 points 6 months ago (1 child) They can if this never got past the grand jury. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 months ago It's extremely uncommon for them to try, but Trump is normalizing it permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip 6 points 6 months ago (1 child) They can if this never got past the grand jury. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 months ago It's extremely uncommon for them to try, but Trump is normalizing it permalink fedilink source parent
[–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 months ago It's extremely uncommon for them to try, but Trump is normalizing it permalink fedilink source parent
[–] otp@sh.itjust.works 23 points 6 months ago That's insane. Sure, an accidental discharge is an accident. Whatever. Pointing the gun in the direction that an accidental discharge would kill somebody is a guilty act. And having the gun loaded should be, too. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children) The grand jury is an extension of the district attorney’s office. When a crime is suspected of being committed, the district attorney brings the evidence to a grand jury. Then the grand jury decides if the case can proceed to trial. It’s basically step 0 in the judicial process. The prosecutor has a lot of discretion in what evidence the grand jury sees. They can do things like include evidence that they know won’t stand up in court, or intentionally exclude exculpatory evidence (that would prove the suspect’s innocence). Additionally, there is no defense attorney at the grand jury. Nobody has been charged with a crime yet, so the suspect can’t even defend themselves. The old joke among defense attorneys is that the grand jury would indict a ham sandwich for murder if the DA wanted them to. The point of the grand jury is for the prosecutor to go “do I have enough evidence to go to trial?” They’re not deciding guilt. They’re just deciding if it’s even worth trying to prosecute a suspect. So the threshold for evidence is very low. On paper, the grand jury is meant to prevent frivolous charges and protect clearly innocent suspects. If the grand jury decides there is enough evidence to go to trial, then the suspect is officially charged with a crime and the entire arrest+trial part of the prosecution kicks off. But in reality, it is often just used as a scapegoat by the district attorney. The grand jury is anonymous, which makes them very convenient as a scapegoat. As far as the public is concerned, the grand jury is just a sort of massless, faceless blob. The DA is typically an elected position, which means they need to keep the public’s wants in mind. And this can come into conflict with the job, when they have a politically inconvenient case. For example, let’s say a cop kills someone in broad daylight, surrounded by bystander recordings. The public is out for blood. But the police union has privately told the DA that if charges get pressed, the cops will collectively stop cooperating as witnesses and won’t collect evidence at crime scenes. Functionally making the DA’s job impossible. So the DA uses the grand jury as a scapegoat. They refuse to bring any evidence (because again, they can choose to exclude evidence), and then the grand jury refuses to indict because they were given no evidence. Then the DA jumps in front of the news cameras and goes “I tried my best, and I brought the case to the grand jury! But the big mean grand jury refused to indict! Remember that I’m fighting for you. Vote for me!” And the grand jury (as a faceless blob) can’t defend themselves and go “hey uhh, we would have indicted that cop if the DA brought any evidence…” permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] EgoNo4@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago Thank you. permalink fedilink source parent [–] stylusmobilus@aussie.zone 1 point 6 months ago Thanks for that effort, appreciated. Again today I’m thankful I don’t live there. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] stylusmobilus@aussie.zone 1 point 6 months ago Thanks for that effort, appreciated. Again today I’m thankful I don’t live there. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] SARGE@startrek.website 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Zephorah@discuss.online 15 points 6 months ago Since the Kirk shooting there has been a violent eruption of “we are done with you”, right to left. We are not to be discussed or argued with henceforth, only removed, by whatever means. This is the rhetoric. Clearly, it is more than rhetoric. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works 12 points 6 months ago (1 child) Because it's okay, he still has 2 more daughters 👍 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] INHALE_VEGETABLES@aussie.zone 1 point 6 months ago To be fair you only really need one. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] INHALE_VEGETABLES@aussie.zone 1 point 6 months ago To be fair you only really need one. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago the lightest charge, wrongful death, is civil. not criminal permalink fedilink source parent