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Victims of Communism (lemmy.ml)
submitted 7 months ago by to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[–] 22 points 7 months ago (3 children)

I wonder if anyone has a number on how many people capitalism has killed.

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  • [–] 21 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    At least 10 million every year from starvation and preventable diseases.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    FTR, China (as the big communist-style economy) seems to be one of the smaller donors among the big economies to international aid programmes for both food and healthcare.

    The US (until the schmuck) was the biggest by far for food contributions via the WFP, with the EU and individual donors making up the majority. Healthcare seems more balanced contribution-wise (not so much from the US)

    Obviously it is hard to get exact numbers. In particular, China also has its own aid programme too. Estimates are of USD 5 billion to USD 8 billion per year (1,000 million) ... a total for all aid.

    Sure, aid is also used for leverage (soft power), but there certainly seems to be a historical pattern of the capitalist superpowers helping to feed the world, despite it often still not being enough...

    It will be interesting to see if China has stepped up, with the US cutting back under trump.

    edit: In a world where leaders and governments put the needs of people first, one wouldn't need as much aid, of course.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    It's important to consider where this aid is going. In the US most of it's forreign aid over history has been gone to fund verious wars, such as most recently the war in ukraine and the war in gaza, where particularly the war in gaza is going towards funding genocide, definitely not something I would consider a worthy cause.

    Compare that to china which is specifically spending it's money on helping the global south develop and lift developing countries out of poverty. It has been building infrastructure projects and giving grants mainly in africa but also in asia.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (1 child)

    You are talking about military aid, which is something else. Eg. Israel gets military aid, Gaza gets food and medicine. Pre-trump, there were reductions and slow-downs of the former based on intelligence reports, and attempts to guarantee the latter, trying to limit the civilian humanitarian crisis of Israel's response to Hamas' attack on Israel. Hamas opened pandora's box.

    On Ukraine: Many countries throughout the world are supplying both direct and indirect military, financial and humanitarian aid to Ukraine so that it may continue to defend itself against an illegal war of aggression, initiated by russia against a peaceful Ukraine. Pre-2014 saw ukranians and russian speaking ukranians living and working side by side (including in the east and in crimea). Conflicts were primarily driven by elites in politics and business, and not borne by ordinary citizens. After russia invaded in 2014, a russia perpetrated genocide of Ukranian culture began in all occipied regions. Rigged "elections", oppression of proud Ukranians (forced relocations, imprisonment, social restrictions) along with forced conscription (DPR/LPR, later Crimea too). Peace destroyed on a political whim by a neighbouring country. This initial invasion led to the militarization of Ukraine, whose military was small and weak in 2014. Russia then expanded the war in 2022, attempting and failing a complete takeover of Ukraine. The number of civilian casualties skyrocketed as a result, along with military casualties. Millions of lives destroyed, all because of russian political decisions.

    My opinion: Russia fears the prosperity and anti-corruption efforts that will come with EU membership. NATO is a bogeyman for russia, while the real risk to russia comes from a prosperous independent Ukraine, hence the desire to keep a foot on its throat.

    China? As already stated, they aren't a particularly big contributor to the world's humanitarian aid given their economy... they are mostly doing business deals for influence. China is the up and coming superpower, and saw an opportunity while the US focused elsewhere. While Europe pays to keep migration crises at bay (often excacerbated by russian and US involvement), China reaps the reward of pragmatic engagement with any country, democracies and despots alike. Good for them, I guess.

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  • [–] -3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    This is utter bullshit.

    As I explained here, the food aid is a tool of imperialism. It's a tool to keep the global south linked to the US Empire and remain underdeveloped, resulting in unequal exchange.

    As for Ukraine, you're entirely wrong. In 2014, the west backed the far-right Euromaidan coup because the democratically elected president, Yanukovych, picked a Russian loan over one from the IMF that required austerity measures. The Stepan Bandera-upholding neo-Nazis orchestrated the Maidan Massacre, and began ethnically cleansing the Donbass region. 13,000 civilians were murdered by the Kiev regime over the course of a decade in the breakaway regions of Donetsk and Luhansk, and it was only when Kiev had ammassed a gigantic invasion force that Russia intervened to protect the DPR and LPR per their requests for aid.

    Here are even some western government sanctioned sources.

    Groups like Azov have been folded in officially. The Kiev regime upholds Stepan Bandera and uses likeness for propaganda. Nazis infest Ukrainian leadership:

    The east supported Yanukovych, and that's why the far-right Banderites couping him kicked off the war.

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  • [+] 0 points 7 months ago* (1 child)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

    What part of this is "BS propaganda?" Who has "picked it apart?" You gave no sources, I gave plenty. Do you think, say, BBC was lying about its ally having a Nazi problem?

    You've been caping for the US Empire and trying to pretend it used USAID in a manner that benefits the global south, and now are trying to deny mountains of evidence of Kiev's Nazi problems.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    You dump irrelevant links and make non-sequitir arguments. When challenged, you dump more links and make more non-sequitir arguments. It seems to be your MO, and it (along with the huge number of comments) makes me suspicious of your motives.

    Your comment history is open to all.

    (edit: OP edited his post to remove a copy & paste link dump)

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    I don't dump irrelevant links nor do I make non-sequitor arguments. My comment history is open to all, and I quite clearly state that I'm a communist that organizes in real life and wishes to create more communists. What are you suspicious of, that I'm not a communist?

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Nothing wrong with being a communist. Not my suspicion.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Then what is? Your comment history is also open to all, and it seems you spend a good deal of time complaining about communists and Lemmy.ml.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Mostly just people who believe that the path to a better world is aligned with whitewashing russia's acts of aggression.

    There's plenty of good causes in this world, and plenty of ways to support them. Supporting a genocidal war by russia just because they are not the US's doesn't move the needle.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    I'm not whitewashing Russia's actions, I'm explaining why the war happened. You, in the face of overwhelming evidence of the ethnic cleansing campaign initiated by the Banderites in Kiev, called it "BS propaganda" despite all being from western sources. Russia is not genocidal, and they are not the more progressive side in the war simply because they aren't the US, but because they are stopping an ethnic cleansing campaign and undermining imperialism.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Someone else recently said it better, but here I go: Russia brought war and death and genocide to Ukraine starting in 2014, when there was generally peaceful civilian life and normal political discourse beforehand.

    Ukranians quite consistently voted for EU integration and moving away from russia's sphere of influence... they wanted it, and they did not want russia. No guns necessary, just an increasingly well educated and inspired population. Russia sent guns instead.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Incorrect. The west brought war, death, and genocide to Ukraine by couping the democratically elected Yanukovych and placing far-right Banderites in power, who slaughtered civilians in the Maidan Massacre, then murdered 13,000+ civilians in Donetsk and Luhansk for breaking away from the new Neo-Nazi regime. The only genocide in Ukraine is the one committed against ethnic Russians by the Kiev regime.

    Yanukovych went for the Russian loan because it didn't require austerity measures that the IMF loan did. Ukraine is one of the poorest countries in Europe and has been utterly looted by the west. Education has nothing to do with it, it's the west plundering Ukraine and couping democratically elected presidents.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    He went against what the people wanted, and the platform upon which he was elected, and protests ensued. Killings, more protests, lost political and police support, and he ran away with his tail between his legs to mama russia. He abandoned office, and lost his position for it. New elections, new chance. Except for russia. Yawn.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    This is largely the mythology built around the event. The actual decision to go with the Russian loan was absolutely better, as Ukraine is now even more immiserated than before (even pre-2022). This also doesn't justify letting neo-Nazis run Ukraine and ethnically cleanse Donetsk and Luhansk, who both voted democratically to join Russia.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    You are falling back to that lie? In short: Yes, ukraine had and surely still has some neonazis, but the far right parties barely make a dent. So no, they are not the government. You are starting to go around in circles. Perhaps you should take a seat.

    DPR and LHR are the result of the first russian invasion, and no fair elections were possible. They were in violation of the minsk agreements, had ad-hoc voter lists, the election bodies were created by armed groups, and there was no judiciary or electoral oversight. In short: they were illegitimate and the result was almost certainly predetermined.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    There's no lie, I already provided a mountain of evidence proving that Banderites run Ukraine. Unless, of course, the BBC is "Russian propaganda." DPR and LPR are a result of the neo-Nazis taking over Kiev, and couping Yanukovych, who DPR and LPR supported (as shown by the electoral map I provided earlier). Kiev broke the Minsk agreements as well. The elections are legitimate, you're inserting your fanfiction to continue justifying to yourself that supporting Nazis is okay for you to do.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago

    USAID was a tool of imperialism, not charity. The food "aid" it gave was specifically to underdevelop food production in the global south to force reliance on the US Empire, which expropriates vast sums of wealth through imperialism. China doesn't participate in imperialism nor unequal exchange, and as such countries that trade with China and join BRI actually develop, rather than remain underdeveloped and overexploited by the west.

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