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Does Europe Finally Realize It’s Alone? (foreignpolicy.com)
submitted 8 months ago* by to c/europe@feddit.org
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"Every time Trump or members of his administration have lashed out at Europe, including Ukraine, Europeans have absorbed the blow with a forced smile and bent over backwards to flatter the White House." (...)

"While a systemic answer to Europe’s security conundrum is not in sight, Europeans do have the levers to prevent Ukraine’s capitulation and create the conditions for a just peace."

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[–] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 child)

See, that just seems like "it's ideology, but also billionaires are there". European businesses don't want tariffs, but there's still European tariffs. The simplest explanation would just be that it wasn't their call.

It feels like you're starting with your conclusion and then building a story about it to end at whichever facts are appropriate for the instance. It'd be more convincing if you could put it in a form agnostic of where and when it's being applied. Like, when do billionaires want tariffs, and when don't they? Then, does it actually predict policy decision?

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 child)

    It feels like you're starting with your conclusion and then building a story about it to end at whichever facts are appropriate for the region.

    It's an essay format, not a deductive argument so the thesis is stated, then it's given support. Not saying you should be convinced, just explaining why it seems like this. It's also a light year away from an exhaustive analysis. I can't do that here and now. It takes books to do this.

    European businesses don't want tariffs, but there's still European tariffs. The simplest explanation would just be that it wasn't their call.

    To this point, I'll restate that there is competition for profit (not in a single market but profit making overall) and therefore state control between billionaires since state control modulates profits. What tariffs are good for some are bad for others. E.g. lumber tariffs are great for the lumber industry billionaires but bad for the construction ones due to increased cost of lumber. They both compete for making profit because if say lumber makes a lot more than construction for a while, they could buy construction. Cross-industry consolidation happens all the time. So when a billionaire doesn't want tariffs but there are tariffs anyway - then it probably wasn't their call. Instead it's either the call of another, or an uninfluenced politician. I think the latter is an endangered species given how much billionaires spend on lobbying and I don't think it's a more complicated explanation. In fact given how capital-intensive political campaigns are, the existence of an uninfluenced politician that rose to a position of power where they got to set industry tariffs might be more complex. Obviously there are regional differences, e.g. US vs Canada vs EU. I think the tendencies are the same but the degree is different at any point in time.

    To be clear I am not excluding ideology entirely, I think the owner class is a much bigger driver, including significantly driving the ideology of the day at a given place and time.

    E: In the hypothetical where the tariff-profiting lumber billionaire buys construction, their attitude towards tatiffs may change depending on how the profit maximization formula works now that they own both lumber and construction. It may turn out that getting rid of the lumber tariffs yields higher profits overall, in which case that billionaire and the politicians who represent them would become anti-tariff.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    Obviously there are regional differences, e.g. US vs Canada vs EU. I think the tendencies are the same but the degree is different at any point in time.

    I will point out that in Canada, there's not much money in politics. We don't have a Citizens United equivalent. Pretty sure European countries are more like us, although each one has a distinct system.

    It’s an essay format, not a deductive argument so the thesis is stated, then it’s given support. Not saying you should be convinced, just explaining why it seems like this.

    Alright, I guess I've delivered as much rebuttal as is appropriate, then.

    It’s also a light year away from an exhaustive analysis. I can’t do that here and now. It takes books to do this.

    You know, too much length on each analysis itself actually reduces strength, in my experience. If one's idea is that complicated, they need to put it in a modular, structured form (so not prose), or are guaranteed to have made logical errors somewhere inside.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    I will point out that in Canada, there's not much money in politics. We don't have a Citizens United equivalent. Pretty sure European countries are more like us, although each one has a distinct system.

    For sure. Political campaigns are still too expensive for the average worker in Canada. The way I tell who is being represented is by looking at who and what's being prioritized. The LPC for example, while campaigning in part to represent workers, has trampled over multiple unions during important labour disputes. Whatever the influence channels are, they seem to be effective in prioritizing coroporations and their owners.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    Having been involved in campaign treasury myself, you absolutely can run a campaign on a shoestring budget. A good campaign costs a bit more, but at the end of the day it all comes from small dollar donations, and if you're getting a meaningful amount of votes you should get some of those as well.

    People tend to blame the government if their services aren't working or the economy preforms poorly, working class solidarity be damned. That's why it's tempting to shut strikes down even if you endorse the basic concept in theory.

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