▲ 1337 ▼ California to become first state to sell cheap insulin through state-backed program (lemmy.blahaj.zone) submitted 9 months ago by florencia@lemmy.blahaj.zone to c/progressivepolitics@lemmy.world 236 comments fedilink hide all child comments https://www.gov.ca.gov/2025/10/16/governor-newsom-announces-affordable-calrx-insulin-11-a-pen-will-soon-be-available-for-purchase/
[–] Armand1@lemmy.world 176 points 9 months ago* (9 children) Controversial take (though maybe not in this community): If it's needed for survival, it should be free. No exceptions. permalink fedilink source hideshow 18 child comments replies: [–] JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca 120 points 9 months ago (3 children) I would much prefer my taxes go toward making insulin to give away than bombs to give away. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] brygphilomena@lemmy.dbzer0.com 44 points 9 months ago (1 child) I'd even, gasp, go so far as to say I'd happily give it away to citizens and illegal immigrants alike. Oh hell, everyone on the planet. No strings attached. This is where my taxes should go. I can't stand the rhetoric that it's bad tax payers are footing the bill for those without insurance and those here illegally. That's what a society is supposed to do. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Frozengyro@lemmy.world 22 points 9 months ago (1 child) In fact, before this admin, we gave many medicines all over the world to developing nations. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago (1 child) Which was also an payout to big pharma. And we illegally used those programs to sneak in spies. While we’re blocking Cuba from distributing cancer vaccines and covid vaccines. Let’s not pretend we were good before this. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) There have been plenty of people involved in those programs talking about them online since they were repealed and that they aren't motivated at the politcal level by altruism and that they have done an incredible amount of good in the world are both true statements. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago (2 children) Are you going to be grateful someone came to your home to give you medicine, if they use it to sneak in someone who will burn down your home? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] misterred@feddit.online 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Surviving; paying attention; ensuring your family's security and hopefully that of your community are all in no way mutually exclusive. Kooky deflective narrative. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago You’re not following the thread. Comment above is defending the US practice of sneaking in spies with aid org fronts. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) What a terminally online hypothetical. IRL, people are insanely grateful to get free medicine and crushed that it's gone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago There’s a growing number of countries that refuse to allow aid orgs in, due to the continued illegal use of them to smuggle in intelligence officers. Not what I would call “insanely grateful.” permalink fedilink source parent [–] whoisearth@lemmy.ca 4 points 9 months ago Imagine giving Palestinians insulin instead of bombs? Instead we give them both and wonder why they get mad about the free bombs without looking at the free insulin. I mean how ungrateful are they? Can they not say thank you?! /s permalink fedilink source parent [–] C126@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago As a right wing anti gov type, I agree wholeheartedly. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child) Devil's advocate: Medi-CAL (California's Medicaid program, already known for being very permissive) will likely already cover it for the eligible, and should the $11 be used in aggregate to cover distribution and manufacturing for all of California's citizens, it would be a reasonable rate to keep the program self-sustaining. Allotting an exception for the payment for those who may have difficulty seems like a reasonable way to cover any gaps while making sure it never runs into the red. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 16 points 9 months ago (3 children) The funny thing is if memory serves right insulin once you get it going is exceptionally cheap to produce. Unironically the 11 bucks may very well be the gross cost of production and transport per batch, probably not wages though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 5 points 9 months ago originally elly lily, novo nordis, and sanofi had a stranglehold on the different types of "extended release insulin" they were behind the lack of generics for a while. until they were able to come up with alternatives insulin not based on the formulaitons of the 3 companies. permalink fedilink source parent [–] misterred@feddit.online 2 points 9 months ago In most likely scenarios the social amortization should cover everyone including production/transportation labor. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 9 months ago (1 child) Realistically the transportation and labor side is the most expensive, yeah. If the economy of scale gets solid enough in like year 2 of the program it probably could be cut down in price further, but California's a huge state that may have trouble lowering distribution costs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Would really depend on how and where production takes place at that point. I'm well aware of the states size, also I'm well aware that I'd rather drive through Nevada and Idaho to get to Washington over going through the central valley and Shasta. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Agreed. I love that this is rolling out in the first place though - I remember patients that had to leave the pharmacy because of their insulin being over $50 when I worked there. Hope that never happens again in this state. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago Honestly I hope this is a first step to state run hospitals and eventually universal healthcare. While it's not an ideal way to go about it it's probably easier overall long term than dealing with the preexisting mess that is the modern hospital system. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca 18 points 9 months ago* Well America voted against food being considered essential for survival... permalink fedilink source parent [–] _stranger_@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago (1 child) Of course, but what California is doing is awesome, so why shit all over it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Armand1@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago* I'm not. It's a step in the right direction. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Matombo@feddit.org 9 points 9 months ago (1 child) that's how it works in most of europe with our socialist healthcare system permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] whoisearth@lemmy.ca 5 points 9 months ago Canada too. My son has T1D. Never paid a cent for insulin even through my insurance. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DupaCycki@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago (5 children) How about exceptions for rich people who can easily afford it at no noticeable impact to their livelihoods? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] Armand1@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago Validating who earns too much or too little is a colossal task that leaves opportunities for people to lose access to food because they haven't logged in that month to report their earnings. It also often costs more in bureaucracy, people and infrastructure than simply giving it to everyone. It also causes social stigma as you are seen as poor for using a service. If it's available to everyone, then none of these problems occur. Rich people will typically self-opt out of these systems anyway, as they will want the better expensive version of the thing anyway. For case studies where this works, see: Free school meals UK NHS For places where the system doesn't work because of income cutoffs, see: UK benefits (working a little will cut you off, plunging you back into poverty Basically all welfare programs permalink fedilink source parent [–] UnpledgedCatnapTipper@piefed.blahaj.zone 6 points 9 months ago Adding means testing to programs like this generally cost more money than it saves. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Dojan@pawb.social 5 points 9 months ago I like this. Ultimately there shouldn't be any rich people, but that's a step we can figure out later. permalink fedilink source parent [–] snooggums@piefed.world 5 points 9 months ago No, because that just opens the path for the ever expanding "except for them" for a very small portion of the population. permalink fedilink source parent [–] canajac@lemmy.ca 1 point 9 months ago Make them pay full price, period. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 3 points 9 months ago Broadly speaking I agree but I don't criticize shifting from exploitative to reasonably priced. An improvement is still an improvement. permalink fedilink source parent [–] canajac@lemmy.ca 1 point 9 months ago This I agree with 100%. Why it isn't a standard in the world is totally abhorrent. Anyone with health issues should receive medication for free or at a minimal cost to cover transport, delivery, etc. permalink fedilink source parent [–] x00z@lemmy.world -4 points 9 months ago (2 children) Not a viable take though. Housing, clothing, food.. none of them are free either. A more viable solution is to control the markets by setting limits, like they did here, and then provide a safety net for people so they will always be able to buy this stuff. It would be nice if it was free, but it's a long road to get there. Social politics can provide survival without abolishing stuff like money in the meanwhile. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 8 points 9 months ago (2 children) Some people feel like if you can't provide society with your labor, you should still be fed, clothed, and housed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] SabinStargem@lemmy.today 4 points 9 months ago (2 children) IMO, people who don't work, still contribute to society: raising family, being friends with people, creating art, and so on. Things that aren't easily measured by the dollar bill, but key to a good civilization. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 2 points 9 months ago Not to otherwise disagree with you but I would argue that raising family is hard work permalink fedilink source parent [–] FosterMolasses@leminal.space 2 points 9 months ago And arguably more important to the prevalence of human civilization. Otherwise, places like South Korea wouldn't be so worried about their shut-in youth population and declining birthrates while being currently at the top of the world's tech industry. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Bgugi@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I think essentially everybody agrees, the debate is where to put the lines for "can't" and "needs" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago I think you're giving people too much credit. permalink fedilink source parent [–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Price floors and price ceilings reliably cause market failures like shortages and unemployment. If we're not willing to let people die without it, then we end up playing stupid games like "free emergency room only". Economics is a social science and every proposal should be based on empirical results, not intuition. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] x00z@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at European economics. Healthcare isn't free but sure feels like it. Lifesaving medication is not free but you can ask social services for the money that you need and you can always survive. Water isn't free but if you can't pay you get the money to buy water. "Free" can be the same as having a price and providing people with the funds to pay that price. So my argument was against "free as in beer". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I understand your argument. We certainly aren't the first to investigate this. Would you please provide a source for your claim? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] x00z@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 child) What claim? That social services can provide money if you do not have it? Here's an example for the Netherlands. There's tons of socialist constructs in European countries that provide support if you have trouble. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago No, the "more viable" claim. Compared to free as in beer. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca 120 points 9 months ago (3 children) I would much prefer my taxes go toward making insulin to give away than bombs to give away. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] brygphilomena@lemmy.dbzer0.com 44 points 9 months ago (1 child) I'd even, gasp, go so far as to say I'd happily give it away to citizens and illegal immigrants alike. Oh hell, everyone on the planet. No strings attached. This is where my taxes should go. I can't stand the rhetoric that it's bad tax payers are footing the bill for those without insurance and those here illegally. That's what a society is supposed to do. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Frozengyro@lemmy.world 22 points 9 months ago (1 child) In fact, before this admin, we gave many medicines all over the world to developing nations. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago (1 child) Which was also an payout to big pharma. And we illegally used those programs to sneak in spies. While we’re blocking Cuba from distributing cancer vaccines and covid vaccines. Let’s not pretend we were good before this. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) There have been plenty of people involved in those programs talking about them online since they were repealed and that they aren't motivated at the politcal level by altruism and that they have done an incredible amount of good in the world are both true statements. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago (2 children) Are you going to be grateful someone came to your home to give you medicine, if they use it to sneak in someone who will burn down your home? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] misterred@feddit.online 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Surviving; paying attention; ensuring your family's security and hopefully that of your community are all in no way mutually exclusive. Kooky deflective narrative. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago You’re not following the thread. Comment above is defending the US practice of sneaking in spies with aid org fronts. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) What a terminally online hypothetical. IRL, people are insanely grateful to get free medicine and crushed that it's gone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago There’s a growing number of countries that refuse to allow aid orgs in, due to the continued illegal use of them to smuggle in intelligence officers. Not what I would call “insanely grateful.” permalink fedilink source parent [–] whoisearth@lemmy.ca 4 points 9 months ago Imagine giving Palestinians insulin instead of bombs? Instead we give them both and wonder why they get mad about the free bombs without looking at the free insulin. I mean how ungrateful are they? Can they not say thank you?! /s permalink fedilink source parent [–] C126@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago As a right wing anti gov type, I agree wholeheartedly. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] brygphilomena@lemmy.dbzer0.com 44 points 9 months ago (1 child) I'd even, gasp, go so far as to say I'd happily give it away to citizens and illegal immigrants alike. Oh hell, everyone on the planet. No strings attached. This is where my taxes should go. I can't stand the rhetoric that it's bad tax payers are footing the bill for those without insurance and those here illegally. That's what a society is supposed to do. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Frozengyro@lemmy.world 22 points 9 months ago (1 child) In fact, before this admin, we gave many medicines all over the world to developing nations. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago (1 child) Which was also an payout to big pharma. And we illegally used those programs to sneak in spies. While we’re blocking Cuba from distributing cancer vaccines and covid vaccines. Let’s not pretend we were good before this. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) There have been plenty of people involved in those programs talking about them online since they were repealed and that they aren't motivated at the politcal level by altruism and that they have done an incredible amount of good in the world are both true statements. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago (2 children) Are you going to be grateful someone came to your home to give you medicine, if they use it to sneak in someone who will burn down your home? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] misterred@feddit.online 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Surviving; paying attention; ensuring your family's security and hopefully that of your community are all in no way mutually exclusive. Kooky deflective narrative. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago You’re not following the thread. Comment above is defending the US practice of sneaking in spies with aid org fronts. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) What a terminally online hypothetical. IRL, people are insanely grateful to get free medicine and crushed that it's gone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago There’s a growing number of countries that refuse to allow aid orgs in, due to the continued illegal use of them to smuggle in intelligence officers. Not what I would call “insanely grateful.” permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Frozengyro@lemmy.world 22 points 9 months ago (1 child) In fact, before this admin, we gave many medicines all over the world to developing nations. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago (1 child) Which was also an payout to big pharma. And we illegally used those programs to sneak in spies. While we’re blocking Cuba from distributing cancer vaccines and covid vaccines. Let’s not pretend we were good before this. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) There have been plenty of people involved in those programs talking about them online since they were repealed and that they aren't motivated at the politcal level by altruism and that they have done an incredible amount of good in the world are both true statements. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago (2 children) Are you going to be grateful someone came to your home to give you medicine, if they use it to sneak in someone who will burn down your home? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] misterred@feddit.online 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Surviving; paying attention; ensuring your family's security and hopefully that of your community are all in no way mutually exclusive. Kooky deflective narrative. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago You’re not following the thread. Comment above is defending the US practice of sneaking in spies with aid org fronts. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) What a terminally online hypothetical. IRL, people are insanely grateful to get free medicine and crushed that it's gone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago There’s a growing number of countries that refuse to allow aid orgs in, due to the continued illegal use of them to smuggle in intelligence officers. Not what I would call “insanely grateful.” permalink fedilink source parent
[–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago (1 child) Which was also an payout to big pharma. And we illegally used those programs to sneak in spies. While we’re blocking Cuba from distributing cancer vaccines and covid vaccines. Let’s not pretend we were good before this. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) There have been plenty of people involved in those programs talking about them online since they were repealed and that they aren't motivated at the politcal level by altruism and that they have done an incredible amount of good in the world are both true statements. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago (2 children) Are you going to be grateful someone came to your home to give you medicine, if they use it to sneak in someone who will burn down your home? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] misterred@feddit.online 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Surviving; paying attention; ensuring your family's security and hopefully that of your community are all in no way mutually exclusive. Kooky deflective narrative. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago You’re not following the thread. Comment above is defending the US practice of sneaking in spies with aid org fronts. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) What a terminally online hypothetical. IRL, people are insanely grateful to get free medicine and crushed that it's gone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago There’s a growing number of countries that refuse to allow aid orgs in, due to the continued illegal use of them to smuggle in intelligence officers. Not what I would call “insanely grateful.” permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) There have been plenty of people involved in those programs talking about them online since they were repealed and that they aren't motivated at the politcal level by altruism and that they have done an incredible amount of good in the world are both true statements. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago (2 children) Are you going to be grateful someone came to your home to give you medicine, if they use it to sneak in someone who will burn down your home? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] misterred@feddit.online 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Surviving; paying attention; ensuring your family's security and hopefully that of your community are all in no way mutually exclusive. Kooky deflective narrative. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago You’re not following the thread. Comment above is defending the US practice of sneaking in spies with aid org fronts. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) What a terminally online hypothetical. IRL, people are insanely grateful to get free medicine and crushed that it's gone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago There’s a growing number of countries that refuse to allow aid orgs in, due to the continued illegal use of them to smuggle in intelligence officers. Not what I would call “insanely grateful.” permalink fedilink source parent
[–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago (2 children) Are you going to be grateful someone came to your home to give you medicine, if they use it to sneak in someone who will burn down your home? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] misterred@feddit.online 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Surviving; paying attention; ensuring your family's security and hopefully that of your community are all in no way mutually exclusive. Kooky deflective narrative. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago You’re not following the thread. Comment above is defending the US practice of sneaking in spies with aid org fronts. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) What a terminally online hypothetical. IRL, people are insanely grateful to get free medicine and crushed that it's gone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago There’s a growing number of countries that refuse to allow aid orgs in, due to the continued illegal use of them to smuggle in intelligence officers. Not what I would call “insanely grateful.” permalink fedilink source parent
[–] misterred@feddit.online 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Surviving; paying attention; ensuring your family's security and hopefully that of your community are all in no way mutually exclusive. Kooky deflective narrative. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago You’re not following the thread. Comment above is defending the US practice of sneaking in spies with aid org fronts. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago You’re not following the thread. Comment above is defending the US practice of sneaking in spies with aid org fronts. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) What a terminally online hypothetical. IRL, people are insanely grateful to get free medicine and crushed that it's gone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago There’s a growing number of countries that refuse to allow aid orgs in, due to the continued illegal use of them to smuggle in intelligence officers. Not what I would call “insanely grateful.” permalink fedilink source parent
[–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago There’s a growing number of countries that refuse to allow aid orgs in, due to the continued illegal use of them to smuggle in intelligence officers. Not what I would call “insanely grateful.” permalink fedilink source parent
[–] whoisearth@lemmy.ca 4 points 9 months ago Imagine giving Palestinians insulin instead of bombs? Instead we give them both and wonder why they get mad about the free bombs without looking at the free insulin. I mean how ungrateful are they? Can they not say thank you?! /s permalink fedilink source parent
[–] C126@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago As a right wing anti gov type, I agree wholeheartedly. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child) Devil's advocate: Medi-CAL (California's Medicaid program, already known for being very permissive) will likely already cover it for the eligible, and should the $11 be used in aggregate to cover distribution and manufacturing for all of California's citizens, it would be a reasonable rate to keep the program self-sustaining. Allotting an exception for the payment for those who may have difficulty seems like a reasonable way to cover any gaps while making sure it never runs into the red. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 16 points 9 months ago (3 children) The funny thing is if memory serves right insulin once you get it going is exceptionally cheap to produce. Unironically the 11 bucks may very well be the gross cost of production and transport per batch, probably not wages though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 5 points 9 months ago originally elly lily, novo nordis, and sanofi had a stranglehold on the different types of "extended release insulin" they were behind the lack of generics for a while. until they were able to come up with alternatives insulin not based on the formulaitons of the 3 companies. permalink fedilink source parent [–] misterred@feddit.online 2 points 9 months ago In most likely scenarios the social amortization should cover everyone including production/transportation labor. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 9 months ago (1 child) Realistically the transportation and labor side is the most expensive, yeah. If the economy of scale gets solid enough in like year 2 of the program it probably could be cut down in price further, but California's a huge state that may have trouble lowering distribution costs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Would really depend on how and where production takes place at that point. I'm well aware of the states size, also I'm well aware that I'd rather drive through Nevada and Idaho to get to Washington over going through the central valley and Shasta. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Agreed. I love that this is rolling out in the first place though - I remember patients that had to leave the pharmacy because of their insulin being over $50 when I worked there. Hope that never happens again in this state. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago Honestly I hope this is a first step to state run hospitals and eventually universal healthcare. While it's not an ideal way to go about it it's probably easier overall long term than dealing with the preexisting mess that is the modern hospital system. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 16 points 9 months ago (3 children) The funny thing is if memory serves right insulin once you get it going is exceptionally cheap to produce. Unironically the 11 bucks may very well be the gross cost of production and transport per batch, probably not wages though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 5 points 9 months ago originally elly lily, novo nordis, and sanofi had a stranglehold on the different types of "extended release insulin" they were behind the lack of generics for a while. until they were able to come up with alternatives insulin not based on the formulaitons of the 3 companies. permalink fedilink source parent [–] misterred@feddit.online 2 points 9 months ago In most likely scenarios the social amortization should cover everyone including production/transportation labor. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 9 months ago (1 child) Realistically the transportation and labor side is the most expensive, yeah. If the economy of scale gets solid enough in like year 2 of the program it probably could be cut down in price further, but California's a huge state that may have trouble lowering distribution costs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Would really depend on how and where production takes place at that point. I'm well aware of the states size, also I'm well aware that I'd rather drive through Nevada and Idaho to get to Washington over going through the central valley and Shasta. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Agreed. I love that this is rolling out in the first place though - I remember patients that had to leave the pharmacy because of their insulin being over $50 when I worked there. Hope that never happens again in this state. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago Honestly I hope this is a first step to state run hospitals and eventually universal healthcare. While it's not an ideal way to go about it it's probably easier overall long term than dealing with the preexisting mess that is the modern hospital system. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 5 points 9 months ago originally elly lily, novo nordis, and sanofi had a stranglehold on the different types of "extended release insulin" they were behind the lack of generics for a while. until they were able to come up with alternatives insulin not based on the formulaitons of the 3 companies. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] misterred@feddit.online 2 points 9 months ago In most likely scenarios the social amortization should cover everyone including production/transportation labor. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 9 months ago (1 child) Realistically the transportation and labor side is the most expensive, yeah. If the economy of scale gets solid enough in like year 2 of the program it probably could be cut down in price further, but California's a huge state that may have trouble lowering distribution costs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Would really depend on how and where production takes place at that point. I'm well aware of the states size, also I'm well aware that I'd rather drive through Nevada and Idaho to get to Washington over going through the central valley and Shasta. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Agreed. I love that this is rolling out in the first place though - I remember patients that had to leave the pharmacy because of their insulin being over $50 when I worked there. Hope that never happens again in this state. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago Honestly I hope this is a first step to state run hospitals and eventually universal healthcare. While it's not an ideal way to go about it it's probably easier overall long term than dealing with the preexisting mess that is the modern hospital system. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Would really depend on how and where production takes place at that point. I'm well aware of the states size, also I'm well aware that I'd rather drive through Nevada and Idaho to get to Washington over going through the central valley and Shasta. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Agreed. I love that this is rolling out in the first place though - I remember patients that had to leave the pharmacy because of their insulin being over $50 when I worked there. Hope that never happens again in this state. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago Honestly I hope this is a first step to state run hospitals and eventually universal healthcare. While it's not an ideal way to go about it it's probably easier overall long term than dealing with the preexisting mess that is the modern hospital system. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Agreed. I love that this is rolling out in the first place though - I remember patients that had to leave the pharmacy because of their insulin being over $50 when I worked there. Hope that never happens again in this state. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago Honestly I hope this is a first step to state run hospitals and eventually universal healthcare. While it's not an ideal way to go about it it's probably easier overall long term than dealing with the preexisting mess that is the modern hospital system. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago Honestly I hope this is a first step to state run hospitals and eventually universal healthcare. While it's not an ideal way to go about it it's probably easier overall long term than dealing with the preexisting mess that is the modern hospital system. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca 18 points 9 months ago* Well America voted against food being considered essential for survival... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] _stranger_@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago (1 child) Of course, but what California is doing is awesome, so why shit all over it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Armand1@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago* I'm not. It's a step in the right direction. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Armand1@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago* I'm not. It's a step in the right direction. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Matombo@feddit.org 9 points 9 months ago (1 child) that's how it works in most of europe with our socialist healthcare system permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] whoisearth@lemmy.ca 5 points 9 months ago Canada too. My son has T1D. Never paid a cent for insulin even through my insurance. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] whoisearth@lemmy.ca 5 points 9 months ago Canada too. My son has T1D. Never paid a cent for insulin even through my insurance. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DupaCycki@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago (5 children) How about exceptions for rich people who can easily afford it at no noticeable impact to their livelihoods? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] Armand1@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago Validating who earns too much or too little is a colossal task that leaves opportunities for people to lose access to food because they haven't logged in that month to report their earnings. It also often costs more in bureaucracy, people and infrastructure than simply giving it to everyone. It also causes social stigma as you are seen as poor for using a service. If it's available to everyone, then none of these problems occur. Rich people will typically self-opt out of these systems anyway, as they will want the better expensive version of the thing anyway. For case studies where this works, see: Free school meals UK NHS For places where the system doesn't work because of income cutoffs, see: UK benefits (working a little will cut you off, plunging you back into poverty Basically all welfare programs permalink fedilink source parent [–] UnpledgedCatnapTipper@piefed.blahaj.zone 6 points 9 months ago Adding means testing to programs like this generally cost more money than it saves. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Dojan@pawb.social 5 points 9 months ago I like this. Ultimately there shouldn't be any rich people, but that's a step we can figure out later. permalink fedilink source parent [–] snooggums@piefed.world 5 points 9 months ago No, because that just opens the path for the ever expanding "except for them" for a very small portion of the population. permalink fedilink source parent [–] canajac@lemmy.ca 1 point 9 months ago Make them pay full price, period. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Armand1@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago Validating who earns too much or too little is a colossal task that leaves opportunities for people to lose access to food because they haven't logged in that month to report their earnings. It also often costs more in bureaucracy, people and infrastructure than simply giving it to everyone. It also causes social stigma as you are seen as poor for using a service. If it's available to everyone, then none of these problems occur. Rich people will typically self-opt out of these systems anyway, as they will want the better expensive version of the thing anyway. For case studies where this works, see: Free school meals UK NHS For places where the system doesn't work because of income cutoffs, see: UK benefits (working a little will cut you off, plunging you back into poverty Basically all welfare programs permalink fedilink source parent
[–] UnpledgedCatnapTipper@piefed.blahaj.zone 6 points 9 months ago Adding means testing to programs like this generally cost more money than it saves. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dojan@pawb.social 5 points 9 months ago I like this. Ultimately there shouldn't be any rich people, but that's a step we can figure out later. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] snooggums@piefed.world 5 points 9 months ago No, because that just opens the path for the ever expanding "except for them" for a very small portion of the population. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] canajac@lemmy.ca 1 point 9 months ago Make them pay full price, period. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 3 points 9 months ago Broadly speaking I agree but I don't criticize shifting from exploitative to reasonably priced. An improvement is still an improvement. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] canajac@lemmy.ca 1 point 9 months ago This I agree with 100%. Why it isn't a standard in the world is totally abhorrent. Anyone with health issues should receive medication for free or at a minimal cost to cover transport, delivery, etc. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] x00z@lemmy.world -4 points 9 months ago (2 children) Not a viable take though. Housing, clothing, food.. none of them are free either. A more viable solution is to control the markets by setting limits, like they did here, and then provide a safety net for people so they will always be able to buy this stuff. It would be nice if it was free, but it's a long road to get there. Social politics can provide survival without abolishing stuff like money in the meanwhile. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 8 points 9 months ago (2 children) Some people feel like if you can't provide society with your labor, you should still be fed, clothed, and housed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] SabinStargem@lemmy.today 4 points 9 months ago (2 children) IMO, people who don't work, still contribute to society: raising family, being friends with people, creating art, and so on. Things that aren't easily measured by the dollar bill, but key to a good civilization. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 2 points 9 months ago Not to otherwise disagree with you but I would argue that raising family is hard work permalink fedilink source parent [–] FosterMolasses@leminal.space 2 points 9 months ago And arguably more important to the prevalence of human civilization. Otherwise, places like South Korea wouldn't be so worried about their shut-in youth population and declining birthrates while being currently at the top of the world's tech industry. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Bgugi@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I think essentially everybody agrees, the debate is where to put the lines for "can't" and "needs" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago I think you're giving people too much credit. permalink fedilink source parent [–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Price floors and price ceilings reliably cause market failures like shortages and unemployment. If we're not willing to let people die without it, then we end up playing stupid games like "free emergency room only". Economics is a social science and every proposal should be based on empirical results, not intuition. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] x00z@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at European economics. Healthcare isn't free but sure feels like it. Lifesaving medication is not free but you can ask social services for the money that you need and you can always survive. Water isn't free but if you can't pay you get the money to buy water. "Free" can be the same as having a price and providing people with the funds to pay that price. So my argument was against "free as in beer". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I understand your argument. We certainly aren't the first to investigate this. Would you please provide a source for your claim? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] x00z@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 child) What claim? That social services can provide money if you do not have it? Here's an example for the Netherlands. There's tons of socialist constructs in European countries that provide support if you have trouble. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago No, the "more viable" claim. Compared to free as in beer. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 8 points 9 months ago (2 children) Some people feel like if you can't provide society with your labor, you should still be fed, clothed, and housed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] SabinStargem@lemmy.today 4 points 9 months ago (2 children) IMO, people who don't work, still contribute to society: raising family, being friends with people, creating art, and so on. Things that aren't easily measured by the dollar bill, but key to a good civilization. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 2 points 9 months ago Not to otherwise disagree with you but I would argue that raising family is hard work permalink fedilink source parent [–] FosterMolasses@leminal.space 2 points 9 months ago And arguably more important to the prevalence of human civilization. Otherwise, places like South Korea wouldn't be so worried about their shut-in youth population and declining birthrates while being currently at the top of the world's tech industry. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Bgugi@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I think essentially everybody agrees, the debate is where to put the lines for "can't" and "needs" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago I think you're giving people too much credit. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SabinStargem@lemmy.today 4 points 9 months ago (2 children) IMO, people who don't work, still contribute to society: raising family, being friends with people, creating art, and so on. Things that aren't easily measured by the dollar bill, but key to a good civilization. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 2 points 9 months ago Not to otherwise disagree with you but I would argue that raising family is hard work permalink fedilink source parent [–] FosterMolasses@leminal.space 2 points 9 months ago And arguably more important to the prevalence of human civilization. Otherwise, places like South Korea wouldn't be so worried about their shut-in youth population and declining birthrates while being currently at the top of the world's tech industry. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 2 points 9 months ago Not to otherwise disagree with you but I would argue that raising family is hard work permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FosterMolasses@leminal.space 2 points 9 months ago And arguably more important to the prevalence of human civilization. Otherwise, places like South Korea wouldn't be so worried about their shut-in youth population and declining birthrates while being currently at the top of the world's tech industry. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bgugi@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I think essentially everybody agrees, the debate is where to put the lines for "can't" and "needs" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago I think you're giving people too much credit. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 1 point 9 months ago I think you're giving people too much credit. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Price floors and price ceilings reliably cause market failures like shortages and unemployment. If we're not willing to let people die without it, then we end up playing stupid games like "free emergency room only". Economics is a social science and every proposal should be based on empirical results, not intuition. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] x00z@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at European economics. Healthcare isn't free but sure feels like it. Lifesaving medication is not free but you can ask social services for the money that you need and you can always survive. Water isn't free but if you can't pay you get the money to buy water. "Free" can be the same as having a price and providing people with the funds to pay that price. So my argument was against "free as in beer". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I understand your argument. We certainly aren't the first to investigate this. Would you please provide a source for your claim? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] x00z@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 child) What claim? That social services can provide money if you do not have it? Here's an example for the Netherlands. There's tons of socialist constructs in European countries that provide support if you have trouble. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago No, the "more viable" claim. Compared to free as in beer. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] x00z@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) Look at European economics. Healthcare isn't free but sure feels like it. Lifesaving medication is not free but you can ask social services for the money that you need and you can always survive. Water isn't free but if you can't pay you get the money to buy water. "Free" can be the same as having a price and providing people with the funds to pay that price. So my argument was against "free as in beer". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I understand your argument. We certainly aren't the first to investigate this. Would you please provide a source for your claim? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] x00z@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 child) What claim? That social services can provide money if you do not have it? Here's an example for the Netherlands. There's tons of socialist constructs in European countries that provide support if you have trouble. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago No, the "more viable" claim. Compared to free as in beer. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I understand your argument. We certainly aren't the first to investigate this. Would you please provide a source for your claim? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] x00z@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 child) What claim? That social services can provide money if you do not have it? Here's an example for the Netherlands. There's tons of socialist constructs in European countries that provide support if you have trouble. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago No, the "more viable" claim. Compared to free as in beer. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] x00z@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 child) What claim? That social services can provide money if you do not have it? Here's an example for the Netherlands. There's tons of socialist constructs in European countries that provide support if you have trouble. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago No, the "more viable" claim. Compared to free as in beer. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago No, the "more viable" claim. Compared to free as in beer. permalink fedilink source parent