▲ 288 ▼ Russia dismisses Ukraine peace plan: ‘Let’s decide it on the battlefield’ (www.scmp.com) submitted 2 years ago by fosforus@sopuli.xyz to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml 113 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Oh hey, remind us what this "peace plan" is exactly? permalink fedilink source hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] zephyreks@programming.dev 21 points 2 years ago (1 child) Caps on Russian oil price, restoration of original Ukraine borders, prosecution of Russian "war criminals" It's what you'd expect from a country that's completely winning the war and not stuck in a stalemate while losing support permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -21 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yeah, it's what you'd expect from a country that's winning the war, and Ukraine is not winning the war while rapidly losing support as pretty much all western media admits now. A few recent examples for you: https://www.19fortyfive.com/2023/08/the-hard-reality-ukraines-last-gasp-offensive-has-failed/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/23/western-criticism-blame-ukraine-failing-counter-offensive/ https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-poland-central-europe-eastern-kyiv-baltics-zelenskyy-war-invasion/ https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-21/ukraine-zelenskiy-under-pressure-as-allies-priorities-shift https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-09-24/ukraine-offensive-against-russia-is-too-slow-for-us-uk-and-eu permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) I was pointing out this obvious reality to some people on reddit a few weeks ago and I was called names. Here is how I came on this conclusion: Ukrainians were saying that whoever wins the battle of Bakhmut, will win the war. Then they proceeded to lose said battle and they were announcing to the enemy "Here we go, were coming, we are going to attack at this region anytime soon, please give weapons!" And everyone was like, "How dare you say that they are losing". It's like as if everyone forgot how to think for their own permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -14 points 2 years ago (2 children) It's been pretty surreal to watch this unfold over the past year and a half. Every single prediction the west made about the direction of the war was proven to be completely wrong. Russian economy did not collapse, Russian military isn't falling apart, Russia isn't running out of weapons. Western weapons aren't game changers, stingers, HIMARS, tanks, and missiles that the west sent were all proven to be useless in changing the direction of the war. Yet, as we see in this thread, plenty of people in the west are refusing to do any reflection on the fact that the narrative we're being sold is demonstrably false. They just latch on to whatever new hopium story western media puts out and just keep doubling down. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I understand that in every war there is propaganda on both sides in order to keep the morale high for the ones fighting. However there seems to be the case that the ones that make policy and push the propaganda fall victims of it and are being deluded into bad strategic decisions. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -11 points 2 years ago (1 child) Right, we have a very narrow window of accepted viewpoints right now, and anybody who voices points that that don't fit with the narrative ends up being sidelined. This creates an echo chamber where people just repeat the same talking points to each other even if they don't agree with them because saying anything contrary would be career ending. A great example of this is how people like Jeffrey Sachs and John Mearsheimer are now only found on substack and random youtube channels. It's impossible to make sound decisions without honest debate and without accepting facts as they actually are as opposed to as you want them to be. It's deeply ironic that the west prides itself on diversity of opinions that are considered. This is supposed to be one of the core strengths of the western system compared to "authoritarian" regimes like China. The reality turns out to be quite different. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago And then we go ahead and criticize the Chinese for being authoritarian. People have not yet realized that democracy has diminished and that their so called rights are an illusion. So much for the west spreading "freedom and democracy" permalink fedilink source parent [–] krolden@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) I just heard Tilly on the talking heads say that if Ukraine doesn't prevail then there will be direct conflict between USA and Russia. These are the people running the largest government/military in the world and I'm pretty damn sure all those Ukraine flags would disappear from peoples mailboxes when the bombs start falling in their back yards and their grandchildren are sent to die for a war no one can explain why we are in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -15 points 2 years ago These people are dangerously unhinged and they've brought us to the brink of a nuclear holocaust. The fact that so many people in the west continue to cheer this on is frankly disturbing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] zephyreks@programming.dev 21 points 2 years ago (1 child) Caps on Russian oil price, restoration of original Ukraine borders, prosecution of Russian "war criminals" It's what you'd expect from a country that's completely winning the war and not stuck in a stalemate while losing support permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -21 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yeah, it's what you'd expect from a country that's winning the war, and Ukraine is not winning the war while rapidly losing support as pretty much all western media admits now. A few recent examples for you: https://www.19fortyfive.com/2023/08/the-hard-reality-ukraines-last-gasp-offensive-has-failed/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/23/western-criticism-blame-ukraine-failing-counter-offensive/ https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-poland-central-europe-eastern-kyiv-baltics-zelenskyy-war-invasion/ https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-21/ukraine-zelenskiy-under-pressure-as-allies-priorities-shift https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-09-24/ukraine-offensive-against-russia-is-too-slow-for-us-uk-and-eu permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) I was pointing out this obvious reality to some people on reddit a few weeks ago and I was called names. Here is how I came on this conclusion: Ukrainians were saying that whoever wins the battle of Bakhmut, will win the war. Then they proceeded to lose said battle and they were announcing to the enemy "Here we go, were coming, we are going to attack at this region anytime soon, please give weapons!" And everyone was like, "How dare you say that they are losing". It's like as if everyone forgot how to think for their own permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -14 points 2 years ago (2 children) It's been pretty surreal to watch this unfold over the past year and a half. Every single prediction the west made about the direction of the war was proven to be completely wrong. Russian economy did not collapse, Russian military isn't falling apart, Russia isn't running out of weapons. Western weapons aren't game changers, stingers, HIMARS, tanks, and missiles that the west sent were all proven to be useless in changing the direction of the war. Yet, as we see in this thread, plenty of people in the west are refusing to do any reflection on the fact that the narrative we're being sold is demonstrably false. They just latch on to whatever new hopium story western media puts out and just keep doubling down. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I understand that in every war there is propaganda on both sides in order to keep the morale high for the ones fighting. However there seems to be the case that the ones that make policy and push the propaganda fall victims of it and are being deluded into bad strategic decisions. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -11 points 2 years ago (1 child) Right, we have a very narrow window of accepted viewpoints right now, and anybody who voices points that that don't fit with the narrative ends up being sidelined. This creates an echo chamber where people just repeat the same talking points to each other even if they don't agree with them because saying anything contrary would be career ending. A great example of this is how people like Jeffrey Sachs and John Mearsheimer are now only found on substack and random youtube channels. It's impossible to make sound decisions without honest debate and without accepting facts as they actually are as opposed to as you want them to be. It's deeply ironic that the west prides itself on diversity of opinions that are considered. This is supposed to be one of the core strengths of the western system compared to "authoritarian" regimes like China. The reality turns out to be quite different. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago And then we go ahead and criticize the Chinese for being authoritarian. People have not yet realized that democracy has diminished and that their so called rights are an illusion. So much for the west spreading "freedom and democracy" permalink fedilink source parent [–] krolden@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) I just heard Tilly on the talking heads say that if Ukraine doesn't prevail then there will be direct conflict between USA and Russia. These are the people running the largest government/military in the world and I'm pretty damn sure all those Ukraine flags would disappear from peoples mailboxes when the bombs start falling in their back yards and their grandchildren are sent to die for a war no one can explain why we are in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -15 points 2 years ago These people are dangerously unhinged and they've brought us to the brink of a nuclear holocaust. The fact that so many people in the west continue to cheer this on is frankly disturbing. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -21 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yeah, it's what you'd expect from a country that's winning the war, and Ukraine is not winning the war while rapidly losing support as pretty much all western media admits now. A few recent examples for you: https://www.19fortyfive.com/2023/08/the-hard-reality-ukraines-last-gasp-offensive-has-failed/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/23/western-criticism-blame-ukraine-failing-counter-offensive/ https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-poland-central-europe-eastern-kyiv-baltics-zelenskyy-war-invasion/ https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-21/ukraine-zelenskiy-under-pressure-as-allies-priorities-shift https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-09-24/ukraine-offensive-against-russia-is-too-slow-for-us-uk-and-eu permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) I was pointing out this obvious reality to some people on reddit a few weeks ago and I was called names. Here is how I came on this conclusion: Ukrainians were saying that whoever wins the battle of Bakhmut, will win the war. Then they proceeded to lose said battle and they were announcing to the enemy "Here we go, were coming, we are going to attack at this region anytime soon, please give weapons!" And everyone was like, "How dare you say that they are losing". It's like as if everyone forgot how to think for their own permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -14 points 2 years ago (2 children) It's been pretty surreal to watch this unfold over the past year and a half. Every single prediction the west made about the direction of the war was proven to be completely wrong. Russian economy did not collapse, Russian military isn't falling apart, Russia isn't running out of weapons. Western weapons aren't game changers, stingers, HIMARS, tanks, and missiles that the west sent were all proven to be useless in changing the direction of the war. Yet, as we see in this thread, plenty of people in the west are refusing to do any reflection on the fact that the narrative we're being sold is demonstrably false. They just latch on to whatever new hopium story western media puts out and just keep doubling down. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I understand that in every war there is propaganda on both sides in order to keep the morale high for the ones fighting. However there seems to be the case that the ones that make policy and push the propaganda fall victims of it and are being deluded into bad strategic decisions. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -11 points 2 years ago (1 child) Right, we have a very narrow window of accepted viewpoints right now, and anybody who voices points that that don't fit with the narrative ends up being sidelined. This creates an echo chamber where people just repeat the same talking points to each other even if they don't agree with them because saying anything contrary would be career ending. A great example of this is how people like Jeffrey Sachs and John Mearsheimer are now only found on substack and random youtube channels. It's impossible to make sound decisions without honest debate and without accepting facts as they actually are as opposed to as you want them to be. It's deeply ironic that the west prides itself on diversity of opinions that are considered. This is supposed to be one of the core strengths of the western system compared to "authoritarian" regimes like China. The reality turns out to be quite different. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago And then we go ahead and criticize the Chinese for being authoritarian. People have not yet realized that democracy has diminished and that their so called rights are an illusion. So much for the west spreading "freedom and democracy" permalink fedilink source parent [–] krolden@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) I just heard Tilly on the talking heads say that if Ukraine doesn't prevail then there will be direct conflict between USA and Russia. These are the people running the largest government/military in the world and I'm pretty damn sure all those Ukraine flags would disappear from peoples mailboxes when the bombs start falling in their back yards and their grandchildren are sent to die for a war no one can explain why we are in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -15 points 2 years ago These people are dangerously unhinged and they've brought us to the brink of a nuclear holocaust. The fact that so many people in the west continue to cheer this on is frankly disturbing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) I was pointing out this obvious reality to some people on reddit a few weeks ago and I was called names. Here is how I came on this conclusion: Ukrainians were saying that whoever wins the battle of Bakhmut, will win the war. Then they proceeded to lose said battle and they were announcing to the enemy "Here we go, were coming, we are going to attack at this region anytime soon, please give weapons!" And everyone was like, "How dare you say that they are losing". It's like as if everyone forgot how to think for their own permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -14 points 2 years ago (2 children) It's been pretty surreal to watch this unfold over the past year and a half. Every single prediction the west made about the direction of the war was proven to be completely wrong. Russian economy did not collapse, Russian military isn't falling apart, Russia isn't running out of weapons. Western weapons aren't game changers, stingers, HIMARS, tanks, and missiles that the west sent were all proven to be useless in changing the direction of the war. Yet, as we see in this thread, plenty of people in the west are refusing to do any reflection on the fact that the narrative we're being sold is demonstrably false. They just latch on to whatever new hopium story western media puts out and just keep doubling down. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I understand that in every war there is propaganda on both sides in order to keep the morale high for the ones fighting. However there seems to be the case that the ones that make policy and push the propaganda fall victims of it and are being deluded into bad strategic decisions. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -11 points 2 years ago (1 child) Right, we have a very narrow window of accepted viewpoints right now, and anybody who voices points that that don't fit with the narrative ends up being sidelined. This creates an echo chamber where people just repeat the same talking points to each other even if they don't agree with them because saying anything contrary would be career ending. A great example of this is how people like Jeffrey Sachs and John Mearsheimer are now only found on substack and random youtube channels. It's impossible to make sound decisions without honest debate and without accepting facts as they actually are as opposed to as you want them to be. It's deeply ironic that the west prides itself on diversity of opinions that are considered. This is supposed to be one of the core strengths of the western system compared to "authoritarian" regimes like China. The reality turns out to be quite different. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago And then we go ahead and criticize the Chinese for being authoritarian. People have not yet realized that democracy has diminished and that their so called rights are an illusion. So much for the west spreading "freedom and democracy" permalink fedilink source parent [–] krolden@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) I just heard Tilly on the talking heads say that if Ukraine doesn't prevail then there will be direct conflict between USA and Russia. These are the people running the largest government/military in the world and I'm pretty damn sure all those Ukraine flags would disappear from peoples mailboxes when the bombs start falling in their back yards and their grandchildren are sent to die for a war no one can explain why we are in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -15 points 2 years ago These people are dangerously unhinged and they've brought us to the brink of a nuclear holocaust. The fact that so many people in the west continue to cheer this on is frankly disturbing. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -14 points 2 years ago (2 children) It's been pretty surreal to watch this unfold over the past year and a half. Every single prediction the west made about the direction of the war was proven to be completely wrong. Russian economy did not collapse, Russian military isn't falling apart, Russia isn't running out of weapons. Western weapons aren't game changers, stingers, HIMARS, tanks, and missiles that the west sent were all proven to be useless in changing the direction of the war. Yet, as we see in this thread, plenty of people in the west are refusing to do any reflection on the fact that the narrative we're being sold is demonstrably false. They just latch on to whatever new hopium story western media puts out and just keep doubling down. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I understand that in every war there is propaganda on both sides in order to keep the morale high for the ones fighting. However there seems to be the case that the ones that make policy and push the propaganda fall victims of it and are being deluded into bad strategic decisions. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -11 points 2 years ago (1 child) Right, we have a very narrow window of accepted viewpoints right now, and anybody who voices points that that don't fit with the narrative ends up being sidelined. This creates an echo chamber where people just repeat the same talking points to each other even if they don't agree with them because saying anything contrary would be career ending. A great example of this is how people like Jeffrey Sachs and John Mearsheimer are now only found on substack and random youtube channels. It's impossible to make sound decisions without honest debate and without accepting facts as they actually are as opposed to as you want them to be. It's deeply ironic that the west prides itself on diversity of opinions that are considered. This is supposed to be one of the core strengths of the western system compared to "authoritarian" regimes like China. The reality turns out to be quite different. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago And then we go ahead and criticize the Chinese for being authoritarian. People have not yet realized that democracy has diminished and that their so called rights are an illusion. So much for the west spreading "freedom and democracy" permalink fedilink source parent [–] krolden@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) I just heard Tilly on the talking heads say that if Ukraine doesn't prevail then there will be direct conflict between USA and Russia. These are the people running the largest government/military in the world and I'm pretty damn sure all those Ukraine flags would disappear from peoples mailboxes when the bombs start falling in their back yards and their grandchildren are sent to die for a war no one can explain why we are in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -15 points 2 years ago These people are dangerously unhinged and they've brought us to the brink of a nuclear holocaust. The fact that so many people in the west continue to cheer this on is frankly disturbing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I understand that in every war there is propaganda on both sides in order to keep the morale high for the ones fighting. However there seems to be the case that the ones that make policy and push the propaganda fall victims of it and are being deluded into bad strategic decisions. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -11 points 2 years ago (1 child) Right, we have a very narrow window of accepted viewpoints right now, and anybody who voices points that that don't fit with the narrative ends up being sidelined. This creates an echo chamber where people just repeat the same talking points to each other even if they don't agree with them because saying anything contrary would be career ending. A great example of this is how people like Jeffrey Sachs and John Mearsheimer are now only found on substack and random youtube channels. It's impossible to make sound decisions without honest debate and without accepting facts as they actually are as opposed to as you want them to be. It's deeply ironic that the west prides itself on diversity of opinions that are considered. This is supposed to be one of the core strengths of the western system compared to "authoritarian" regimes like China. The reality turns out to be quite different. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago And then we go ahead and criticize the Chinese for being authoritarian. People have not yet realized that democracy has diminished and that their so called rights are an illusion. So much for the west spreading "freedom and democracy" permalink fedilink source parent
[+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -11 points 2 years ago (1 child) Right, we have a very narrow window of accepted viewpoints right now, and anybody who voices points that that don't fit with the narrative ends up being sidelined. This creates an echo chamber where people just repeat the same talking points to each other even if they don't agree with them because saying anything contrary would be career ending. A great example of this is how people like Jeffrey Sachs and John Mearsheimer are now only found on substack and random youtube channels. It's impossible to make sound decisions without honest debate and without accepting facts as they actually are as opposed to as you want them to be. It's deeply ironic that the west prides itself on diversity of opinions that are considered. This is supposed to be one of the core strengths of the western system compared to "authoritarian" regimes like China. The reality turns out to be quite different. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago And then we go ahead and criticize the Chinese for being authoritarian. People have not yet realized that democracy has diminished and that their so called rights are an illusion. So much for the west spreading "freedom and democracy" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago And then we go ahead and criticize the Chinese for being authoritarian. People have not yet realized that democracy has diminished and that their so called rights are an illusion. So much for the west spreading "freedom and democracy" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] krolden@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) I just heard Tilly on the talking heads say that if Ukraine doesn't prevail then there will be direct conflict between USA and Russia. These are the people running the largest government/military in the world and I'm pretty damn sure all those Ukraine flags would disappear from peoples mailboxes when the bombs start falling in their back yards and their grandchildren are sent to die for a war no one can explain why we are in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -15 points 2 years ago These people are dangerously unhinged and they've brought us to the brink of a nuclear holocaust. The fact that so many people in the west continue to cheer this on is frankly disturbing. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] yogthos@lemmy.ml -15 points 2 years ago These people are dangerously unhinged and they've brought us to the brink of a nuclear holocaust. The fact that so many people in the west continue to cheer this on is frankly disturbing. permalink fedilink source parent