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also expensive (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/microblogmemes@lemmy.world
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didn't find the post link again, so here is the account https://infosec.exchange/@Em0nM4stodon

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[–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

Same!! P2p and self hosting is getting better and better!

I've been searching for an alternative chat platform for a while now and I'm yet to find anything I think I can use with friends and Grandma alike, ya know? 😅 so hearing about this p2p keet app got me really excited!

Sadly, after a bit of reading and such, I'm not so sure... 😕

  • play-store or github seem to be the only install methods
  • the github is release-delivery only; source code doesn't appear to be public?
  • Keet uses Holepunch's (the company behind keet) "HyperDHT", a distributed hash table, to connect peers. So it seems that, while the comms themselves might be p2p, the app still relies on some server(s) to facilitate their initial connection.
  • good news (kinda) though! You can self host a 'p2p server'! But the phrasing on that doc page reinforces that the network itself isn't fully p2p= "Creates a new server for accepting incoming encrypted P2P connections"
  • Installed it anyway just to see. Immediately prompted to enable Google's push notifications via MicroG 😭
  • the splash page of the app proudly announces "no servers!" - documentation says otherwise 😕
  • creation of a username first checks whether the username is available.... Where is that being checked? No servers, right? 🤔

I want this to be cool, but no source code and foggy talk about servers has my sus-dar goin off a little 🤔 if anyone knows more I'd love to be persuaded!! The app itself is definitely very beautiful and responsive 🙂

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    You raise a lot of points here, I recommend you join the community room in the app, you'll get every detail from the developers there.

    they haven't opensourced it yet, but they say they will do so, and they have done so with all the components that keet is built on top of. So given that track record, I think it's just a matter of when.

    I asked a developer about the dht, in this context a "server" is just a dht node that you can connect to with its public key (but agree it's confusing they use the same word). the wording might be confusing, but its definitively not what anyone understands as a server in a centralized network https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_hash_table

    as i've understood, all push notifications on android has to pass through googles servers (but they are encrypted)

    and they don't need a server to check for duplicates in usernames

    so I recommend you continue to explore and ask around in the chat rooms, figure out if this is for you!

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Cheers for the response! Extremely excited to hear you've heard about open sourcing from the devs, I'm gonna keep my eye out for sure!! Excited to read about dht!

    Thanks again for sharing the app! 🙂

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    yea🤘 the tech is really fascinating. Like yea, the p2p-approach introduces some new challenges, but it solves so many existing ones:

    For example costs. The more popular an app gets, the more traffic it gets, the more it costs to run it. I've heard telegram spends hundreds of millions of dollars on servers, with hundreds of developers.

    P2P is the complete opposite. Keet is made by a small team, and the more people use it, the better it runs (because more peers can relay data). It can scale with no such restrictions.

    someone should do the math of what would be the environmental impact if all communication went p2p instead of datacentres.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah I have been trying to read a bit more about DHT (good lord these are complicated, one video attempted to explain hypercubes??! 😵‍💫). It seems one of the bigger use cases is in torrenting! Which is fascinating, both from technical and security perspectives.

    From what I've learned, it's clear DHT is extremely scalable and resilient, which kicks ass! If it also brings inherent security benefits, I'd say this is a clear choice for a new messaging platform!! 😃 I'll have to learn a bit more first though to be sure.

    What I can say is the app itself is GORGEOUS, and very responsive! The devs are also quite active in the community chat room, and seems to listen to (and have full intents to act on) user feedback, which is amazing!

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Oh absolutely. I like the qualitative way they interact with their users. Instead of lots of static pages with lists of issues to vote on, roadmaps, FAQs and that kind of thing, feedback and updates all happen in the chats, interacting with the actual developers. When I make requests or report bugs, ppl chime in and those things actually get addressed, and sometimes fixed really fast. Feels like a digital village!

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