▲ 877 ▼ ICE agents pointed guns at a US citizen when she ran out on to her yard to ask why they were arresting her (legal immigrant) partner. (abcnews4.com) submitted 1 year ago* by destructdisc@lemmy.world to c/aboringdystopia@lemmy.world 148 comments fedilink hide all child comments Ring footage shows an agent pulling his gun on her, after which he shoves her down multiple times, pushes her back into house & slams the door. All because she was asking for proof of a warrant. They refused to even give their names & badge numbers.
[–] oyo@lemmy.zip 76 points 1 year ago (1 child) If we allowed 50 million immigrants to enter the US the number of criminals per capita would be reduced. If we deported Donald Trump the number of criminals per capita would also be reduced. permalink fedilink source hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] november@lemmy.vg 27 points 1 year ago (1 child) It depresses wages tho. Employers refusing to pay a living wage depresses wages. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) If the labor werent cheaply and alternatively available, they would have less leverage to do that and would have to pay the market rates for those able and willing to do it for that living wage. The more people that live here, the more expensive it gets and the less labor is able to demand for compensation and also even just the most basic of employment and services like health and childcare or things like housing. There has been deliberate efforts to pump up the cost of living and tax base without actually sufficiently funding and providing the appropriate corresponding increase in availabillity and limiting the additional costs that otherwise cuts accessabillity to ensure everything remains in balance to adapt to the influx Edit: oh no, DOWNVOTES, the kryptonite to basic logic and economicss. Ehatever shall I do permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] masterofn001@lemmy.ca 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) Why all the layoffs then? Why can't you afford eggs? Why is healthcare the number 1 cause of bankruptcy? Why are your wages stagnant? Why have billionaires seen a 2 TRILLION $ increase? (Since last year) Immigrants, of course! But, what's this, you ask? https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2025/08/05/inside-instacarts-astro-turf-group-opposing-worker-minimum-wage Back to the front, boy. You can get yer learnin by dyin. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) ✅YOUR DOWNVOTE IN LIEU OF VIABLE ARGUMENT BETRAYS YOUR DISINGENUOUSNESS why isnt there ever punishment for the businesses hiring illegal migrants (only the illegals are punished and sanctioned/deported; its almost like there's no actual disincentive for shady employers to not base their antisocial business models around that...) and why are random low skill employers like restaurants allowed to get away with legally or ilegally hiring foreign labor when there are people able and willing to fill those vacancies domestically? The irrelevant argument that a business cannot exist at cost of employing regular citizens is not an argument for why they should exist at all and be allowed to throw up their hands and outsource like that. They are consuming and benefitting from domestic services and infrastructure, why the hell should they be able to shield themselves from taxes, underpay and exploit workers, and get paid for the pleasure and often not even need to reinvest back into the actual society they could only every exist as a product of? How is there NOT an incentive for employers to game the system by publishint job listings for random positions with inflated requirements and undervalued compensation so nobody who could otherwise do the job at the actual market price and be hired domestically wouldnt or couldnt apply and they simply wail that nobody wants to work so they can get government slaves at a fraction of the price who they can deport if the employees complain about human or labor rights violations? How would that not set a lower and lower standard for workers everywhere in general when their employers are empowered by the government to use that a bargaining wedge and keep them in line from otherwise demanding more or even basally reasonable standards when the owner buddies with a legislatoe can simply stroll in and fire everyone with the assurance they can legally employ their slave replacements and pocket all the difference to personally benefit and cover the minimal costs of next lobbying cycle along with other businesses who have an incentivr to conspire on joint efforts like this? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 2 points 1 year ago Oh boy. This explains "what about vape?" permalink fedilink source parent [–] LePoisson@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) That's just not how the economy works. The people that immigrate work. They have labor value. They're consumers too, they're literally just people like you and me - and zooming out to macro economics that's all we are. The human widgets in the machine. Trying to blame immigrants for the ills of society is a fool's errand. Maybe instead of pumping up shareholder value in stocks, most of which are not owned or shared by the actual labor, there could be an increase of wages and benefits through taxation. Hell stocks could be given to the people who are making that revenue for the company and not to just like the pockets of the investor class who are literally making money by simply having it. I don't think people prefer to be exploited for their labor but when the USD goes farther than your local currency and you're already in bad enough straights it is worth the hardship for those folks. Also all of this is ignoring one very obvious fact. IT IS ILLEGAL TO HIRE UNDOCUMENTED MIGRANT WORKERS. Maybe .. just maybe if the companies and farm owners followed the law they claim to care so much about the demand and the benefit of "illegal" immigration would cease to exist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) Its not about blame. Its about pointing out that all this excess value they contingently generate is basically absorbed only by the businesses that illegally or unethically employ them and the party in power of government that collects increased revenues with fewer obligations that they would be required from regular citizens and also a reduced incentive to solve actual domestic problems rather than let those pumped up government and business revenues/profits to make them look good rather than attenuate that with the actual real cost to citizens who bear the brunt of all of it. Its a scam thru and thru but I'd love for you to point me objectively to how the businesses and government dont gain from this at the cost of the citizenry on the balance The worst part is it works and it incentivizes businesses to pay the bribes and lobbying fees to keep the money train running and continually devaluing labor as time goes on. Nobody but strong unions can compete with that and the abillity of workers to reliably turn to that outlet or create it is severely legislated against and disincentivized culturally and in practical terms for actual sustainance workers Edit: like, yes, in theory that would lead to lower prices for consumers if the labor to produce and bring the product to the consumers table is lower but who knows that information besides the companies and their shady practices? Whats stopping them from simply pocketing that differential and just using it to improve their profit margins? Why do you trust corps to the point you can be confident that we actually so rely on slave labor to have the goods and services we need when theres basically no accountabillity to the companies incentivized to increase their own margins at the expense of consumers and society. permalink fedilink source parent [–] AlexLost@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (1 child) Wage suppression has never come from immigration. It comes from shady business practices and a combined effort of the owner class to separate themselves from the working class. Have you not been hearing about record profits every quarter over the past two decades? Costs for everything have gone up in sync, except for the value of your labour, which has lost incredible amounts over the past 30-40 years. They are taking the food out of our mouths to buy another Lamborghini. Immigration is a small drop in the barrel for why that's happening, but the people who are to blame want you to blame it on immigrants, and not them. You bought it, hook line and sinker. How's it feel to get played? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] masterofn001@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) So, with the mass deportations which have, according to the quota of 3000 per day, removed ~200,000 - 300,000 people, wages should be skyrocketing and the unemployment rate should be near zero. Phew. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) They should at least be deporting or jailing permanently the employers. That would end the issue overnight especially if there was a come-to-Jesus option. Theres just no disincentive and all the incentive in the workd to be a total fucker. US' biggest problem permalink fedilink source parent [–] AlexLost@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago This is not anywhere close to reality. You are already a slave, can you stop working and go enjoy life for a while? Didn't think so. We certainly let them take our worth away though, you are right there. Workers, United, are stronger than all of "them" combined, and it is exactly why they have worked very diligently to convince people that things like "unions" are not good for you and will hurt your employment, when on fact it guarantees you a fairer slice of the pie. Still far from perfect, but we have more power together than we ever will alone. permalink fedilink source parent [–] oyo@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 year ago This is based on a fundamental lie, or at best misunderstanding, of the right. They claim that the labor market is zero-sum, yet money has infinite possibility. "Anyone can become rich if they work hard enough." In fact the opposite is true. A controlled money supply makes it the ultimate zero-sum game. The rich having more necessarily keeps it from others. The labor economy is free to expand, however, as new workers means new consumers. There is a point with housing, however that problem is fabricated by elites, with no cause related to immigrants. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] november@lemmy.vg 27 points 1 year ago (1 child) It depresses wages tho. Employers refusing to pay a living wage depresses wages. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) If the labor werent cheaply and alternatively available, they would have less leverage to do that and would have to pay the market rates for those able and willing to do it for that living wage. The more people that live here, the more expensive it gets and the less labor is able to demand for compensation and also even just the most basic of employment and services like health and childcare or things like housing. There has been deliberate efforts to pump up the cost of living and tax base without actually sufficiently funding and providing the appropriate corresponding increase in availabillity and limiting the additional costs that otherwise cuts accessabillity to ensure everything remains in balance to adapt to the influx Edit: oh no, DOWNVOTES, the kryptonite to basic logic and economicss. Ehatever shall I do permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] masterofn001@lemmy.ca 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) Why all the layoffs then? Why can't you afford eggs? Why is healthcare the number 1 cause of bankruptcy? Why are your wages stagnant? Why have billionaires seen a 2 TRILLION $ increase? (Since last year) Immigrants, of course! But, what's this, you ask? https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2025/08/05/inside-instacarts-astro-turf-group-opposing-worker-minimum-wage Back to the front, boy. You can get yer learnin by dyin. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) ✅YOUR DOWNVOTE IN LIEU OF VIABLE ARGUMENT BETRAYS YOUR DISINGENUOUSNESS why isnt there ever punishment for the businesses hiring illegal migrants (only the illegals are punished and sanctioned/deported; its almost like there's no actual disincentive for shady employers to not base their antisocial business models around that...) and why are random low skill employers like restaurants allowed to get away with legally or ilegally hiring foreign labor when there are people able and willing to fill those vacancies domestically? The irrelevant argument that a business cannot exist at cost of employing regular citizens is not an argument for why they should exist at all and be allowed to throw up their hands and outsource like that. They are consuming and benefitting from domestic services and infrastructure, why the hell should they be able to shield themselves from taxes, underpay and exploit workers, and get paid for the pleasure and often not even need to reinvest back into the actual society they could only every exist as a product of? How is there NOT an incentive for employers to game the system by publishint job listings for random positions with inflated requirements and undervalued compensation so nobody who could otherwise do the job at the actual market price and be hired domestically wouldnt or couldnt apply and they simply wail that nobody wants to work so they can get government slaves at a fraction of the price who they can deport if the employees complain about human or labor rights violations? How would that not set a lower and lower standard for workers everywhere in general when their employers are empowered by the government to use that a bargaining wedge and keep them in line from otherwise demanding more or even basally reasonable standards when the owner buddies with a legislatoe can simply stroll in and fire everyone with the assurance they can legally employ their slave replacements and pocket all the difference to personally benefit and cover the minimal costs of next lobbying cycle along with other businesses who have an incentivr to conspire on joint efforts like this? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 2 points 1 year ago Oh boy. This explains "what about vape?" permalink fedilink source parent [–] LePoisson@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) That's just not how the economy works. The people that immigrate work. They have labor value. They're consumers too, they're literally just people like you and me - and zooming out to macro economics that's all we are. The human widgets in the machine. Trying to blame immigrants for the ills of society is a fool's errand. Maybe instead of pumping up shareholder value in stocks, most of which are not owned or shared by the actual labor, there could be an increase of wages and benefits through taxation. Hell stocks could be given to the people who are making that revenue for the company and not to just like the pockets of the investor class who are literally making money by simply having it. I don't think people prefer to be exploited for their labor but when the USD goes farther than your local currency and you're already in bad enough straights it is worth the hardship for those folks. Also all of this is ignoring one very obvious fact. IT IS ILLEGAL TO HIRE UNDOCUMENTED MIGRANT WORKERS. Maybe .. just maybe if the companies and farm owners followed the law they claim to care so much about the demand and the benefit of "illegal" immigration would cease to exist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) Its not about blame. Its about pointing out that all this excess value they contingently generate is basically absorbed only by the businesses that illegally or unethically employ them and the party in power of government that collects increased revenues with fewer obligations that they would be required from regular citizens and also a reduced incentive to solve actual domestic problems rather than let those pumped up government and business revenues/profits to make them look good rather than attenuate that with the actual real cost to citizens who bear the brunt of all of it. Its a scam thru and thru but I'd love for you to point me objectively to how the businesses and government dont gain from this at the cost of the citizenry on the balance The worst part is it works and it incentivizes businesses to pay the bribes and lobbying fees to keep the money train running and continually devaluing labor as time goes on. Nobody but strong unions can compete with that and the abillity of workers to reliably turn to that outlet or create it is severely legislated against and disincentivized culturally and in practical terms for actual sustainance workers Edit: like, yes, in theory that would lead to lower prices for consumers if the labor to produce and bring the product to the consumers table is lower but who knows that information besides the companies and their shady practices? Whats stopping them from simply pocketing that differential and just using it to improve their profit margins? Why do you trust corps to the point you can be confident that we actually so rely on slave labor to have the goods and services we need when theres basically no accountabillity to the companies incentivized to increase their own margins at the expense of consumers and society. permalink fedilink source parent [–] AlexLost@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (1 child) Wage suppression has never come from immigration. It comes from shady business practices and a combined effort of the owner class to separate themselves from the working class. Have you not been hearing about record profits every quarter over the past two decades? Costs for everything have gone up in sync, except for the value of your labour, which has lost incredible amounts over the past 30-40 years. They are taking the food out of our mouths to buy another Lamborghini. Immigration is a small drop in the barrel for why that's happening, but the people who are to blame want you to blame it on immigrants, and not them. You bought it, hook line and sinker. How's it feel to get played? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] masterofn001@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) So, with the mass deportations which have, according to the quota of 3000 per day, removed ~200,000 - 300,000 people, wages should be skyrocketing and the unemployment rate should be near zero. Phew. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) They should at least be deporting or jailing permanently the employers. That would end the issue overnight especially if there was a come-to-Jesus option. Theres just no disincentive and all the incentive in the workd to be a total fucker. US' biggest problem permalink fedilink source parent [–] AlexLost@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago This is not anywhere close to reality. You are already a slave, can you stop working and go enjoy life for a while? Didn't think so. We certainly let them take our worth away though, you are right there. Workers, United, are stronger than all of "them" combined, and it is exactly why they have worked very diligently to convince people that things like "unions" are not good for you and will hurt your employment, when on fact it guarantees you a fairer slice of the pie. Still far from perfect, but we have more power together than we ever will alone. permalink fedilink source parent [–] oyo@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 year ago This is based on a fundamental lie, or at best misunderstanding, of the right. They claim that the labor market is zero-sum, yet money has infinite possibility. "Anyone can become rich if they work hard enough." In fact the opposite is true. A controlled money supply makes it the ultimate zero-sum game. The rich having more necessarily keeps it from others. The labor economy is free to expand, however, as new workers means new consumers. There is a point with housing, however that problem is fabricated by elites, with no cause related to immigrants. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] november@lemmy.vg 27 points 1 year ago (1 child) It depresses wages tho. Employers refusing to pay a living wage depresses wages. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) If the labor werent cheaply and alternatively available, they would have less leverage to do that and would have to pay the market rates for those able and willing to do it for that living wage. The more people that live here, the more expensive it gets and the less labor is able to demand for compensation and also even just the most basic of employment and services like health and childcare or things like housing. There has been deliberate efforts to pump up the cost of living and tax base without actually sufficiently funding and providing the appropriate corresponding increase in availabillity and limiting the additional costs that otherwise cuts accessabillity to ensure everything remains in balance to adapt to the influx Edit: oh no, DOWNVOTES, the kryptonite to basic logic and economicss. Ehatever shall I do permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] masterofn001@lemmy.ca 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) Why all the layoffs then? Why can't you afford eggs? Why is healthcare the number 1 cause of bankruptcy? Why are your wages stagnant? Why have billionaires seen a 2 TRILLION $ increase? (Since last year) Immigrants, of course! But, what's this, you ask? https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2025/08/05/inside-instacarts-astro-turf-group-opposing-worker-minimum-wage Back to the front, boy. You can get yer learnin by dyin. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) ✅YOUR DOWNVOTE IN LIEU OF VIABLE ARGUMENT BETRAYS YOUR DISINGENUOUSNESS why isnt there ever punishment for the businesses hiring illegal migrants (only the illegals are punished and sanctioned/deported; its almost like there's no actual disincentive for shady employers to not base their antisocial business models around that...) and why are random low skill employers like restaurants allowed to get away with legally or ilegally hiring foreign labor when there are people able and willing to fill those vacancies domestically? The irrelevant argument that a business cannot exist at cost of employing regular citizens is not an argument for why they should exist at all and be allowed to throw up their hands and outsource like that. They are consuming and benefitting from domestic services and infrastructure, why the hell should they be able to shield themselves from taxes, underpay and exploit workers, and get paid for the pleasure and often not even need to reinvest back into the actual society they could only every exist as a product of? How is there NOT an incentive for employers to game the system by publishint job listings for random positions with inflated requirements and undervalued compensation so nobody who could otherwise do the job at the actual market price and be hired domestically wouldnt or couldnt apply and they simply wail that nobody wants to work so they can get government slaves at a fraction of the price who they can deport if the employees complain about human or labor rights violations? How would that not set a lower and lower standard for workers everywhere in general when their employers are empowered by the government to use that a bargaining wedge and keep them in line from otherwise demanding more or even basally reasonable standards when the owner buddies with a legislatoe can simply stroll in and fire everyone with the assurance they can legally employ their slave replacements and pocket all the difference to personally benefit and cover the minimal costs of next lobbying cycle along with other businesses who have an incentivr to conspire on joint efforts like this? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 2 points 1 year ago Oh boy. This explains "what about vape?" permalink fedilink source parent [–] LePoisson@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) That's just not how the economy works. The people that immigrate work. They have labor value. They're consumers too, they're literally just people like you and me - and zooming out to macro economics that's all we are. The human widgets in the machine. Trying to blame immigrants for the ills of society is a fool's errand. Maybe instead of pumping up shareholder value in stocks, most of which are not owned or shared by the actual labor, there could be an increase of wages and benefits through taxation. Hell stocks could be given to the people who are making that revenue for the company and not to just like the pockets of the investor class who are literally making money by simply having it. I don't think people prefer to be exploited for their labor but when the USD goes farther than your local currency and you're already in bad enough straights it is worth the hardship for those folks. Also all of this is ignoring one very obvious fact. IT IS ILLEGAL TO HIRE UNDOCUMENTED MIGRANT WORKERS. Maybe .. just maybe if the companies and farm owners followed the law they claim to care so much about the demand and the benefit of "illegal" immigration would cease to exist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) Its not about blame. Its about pointing out that all this excess value they contingently generate is basically absorbed only by the businesses that illegally or unethically employ them and the party in power of government that collects increased revenues with fewer obligations that they would be required from regular citizens and also a reduced incentive to solve actual domestic problems rather than let those pumped up government and business revenues/profits to make them look good rather than attenuate that with the actual real cost to citizens who bear the brunt of all of it. Its a scam thru and thru but I'd love for you to point me objectively to how the businesses and government dont gain from this at the cost of the citizenry on the balance The worst part is it works and it incentivizes businesses to pay the bribes and lobbying fees to keep the money train running and continually devaluing labor as time goes on. Nobody but strong unions can compete with that and the abillity of workers to reliably turn to that outlet or create it is severely legislated against and disincentivized culturally and in practical terms for actual sustainance workers Edit: like, yes, in theory that would lead to lower prices for consumers if the labor to produce and bring the product to the consumers table is lower but who knows that information besides the companies and their shady practices? Whats stopping them from simply pocketing that differential and just using it to improve their profit margins? Why do you trust corps to the point you can be confident that we actually so rely on slave labor to have the goods and services we need when theres basically no accountabillity to the companies incentivized to increase their own margins at the expense of consumers and society. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) If the labor werent cheaply and alternatively available, they would have less leverage to do that and would have to pay the market rates for those able and willing to do it for that living wage. The more people that live here, the more expensive it gets and the less labor is able to demand for compensation and also even just the most basic of employment and services like health and childcare or things like housing. There has been deliberate efforts to pump up the cost of living and tax base without actually sufficiently funding and providing the appropriate corresponding increase in availabillity and limiting the additional costs that otherwise cuts accessabillity to ensure everything remains in balance to adapt to the influx Edit: oh no, DOWNVOTES, the kryptonite to basic logic and economicss. Ehatever shall I do permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] masterofn001@lemmy.ca 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) Why all the layoffs then? Why can't you afford eggs? Why is healthcare the number 1 cause of bankruptcy? Why are your wages stagnant? Why have billionaires seen a 2 TRILLION $ increase? (Since last year) Immigrants, of course! But, what's this, you ask? https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2025/08/05/inside-instacarts-astro-turf-group-opposing-worker-minimum-wage Back to the front, boy. You can get yer learnin by dyin. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) ✅YOUR DOWNVOTE IN LIEU OF VIABLE ARGUMENT BETRAYS YOUR DISINGENUOUSNESS why isnt there ever punishment for the businesses hiring illegal migrants (only the illegals are punished and sanctioned/deported; its almost like there's no actual disincentive for shady employers to not base their antisocial business models around that...) and why are random low skill employers like restaurants allowed to get away with legally or ilegally hiring foreign labor when there are people able and willing to fill those vacancies domestically? The irrelevant argument that a business cannot exist at cost of employing regular citizens is not an argument for why they should exist at all and be allowed to throw up their hands and outsource like that. They are consuming and benefitting from domestic services and infrastructure, why the hell should they be able to shield themselves from taxes, underpay and exploit workers, and get paid for the pleasure and often not even need to reinvest back into the actual society they could only every exist as a product of? How is there NOT an incentive for employers to game the system by publishint job listings for random positions with inflated requirements and undervalued compensation so nobody who could otherwise do the job at the actual market price and be hired domestically wouldnt or couldnt apply and they simply wail that nobody wants to work so they can get government slaves at a fraction of the price who they can deport if the employees complain about human or labor rights violations? How would that not set a lower and lower standard for workers everywhere in general when their employers are empowered by the government to use that a bargaining wedge and keep them in line from otherwise demanding more or even basally reasonable standards when the owner buddies with a legislatoe can simply stroll in and fire everyone with the assurance they can legally employ their slave replacements and pocket all the difference to personally benefit and cover the minimal costs of next lobbying cycle along with other businesses who have an incentivr to conspire on joint efforts like this? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 2 points 1 year ago Oh boy. This explains "what about vape?" permalink fedilink source parent [–] LePoisson@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) That's just not how the economy works. The people that immigrate work. They have labor value. They're consumers too, they're literally just people like you and me - and zooming out to macro economics that's all we are. The human widgets in the machine. Trying to blame immigrants for the ills of society is a fool's errand. Maybe instead of pumping up shareholder value in stocks, most of which are not owned or shared by the actual labor, there could be an increase of wages and benefits through taxation. Hell stocks could be given to the people who are making that revenue for the company and not to just like the pockets of the investor class who are literally making money by simply having it. I don't think people prefer to be exploited for their labor but when the USD goes farther than your local currency and you're already in bad enough straights it is worth the hardship for those folks. Also all of this is ignoring one very obvious fact. IT IS ILLEGAL TO HIRE UNDOCUMENTED MIGRANT WORKERS. Maybe .. just maybe if the companies and farm owners followed the law they claim to care so much about the demand and the benefit of "illegal" immigration would cease to exist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) Its not about blame. Its about pointing out that all this excess value they contingently generate is basically absorbed only by the businesses that illegally or unethically employ them and the party in power of government that collects increased revenues with fewer obligations that they would be required from regular citizens and also a reduced incentive to solve actual domestic problems rather than let those pumped up government and business revenues/profits to make them look good rather than attenuate that with the actual real cost to citizens who bear the brunt of all of it. Its a scam thru and thru but I'd love for you to point me objectively to how the businesses and government dont gain from this at the cost of the citizenry on the balance The worst part is it works and it incentivizes businesses to pay the bribes and lobbying fees to keep the money train running and continually devaluing labor as time goes on. Nobody but strong unions can compete with that and the abillity of workers to reliably turn to that outlet or create it is severely legislated against and disincentivized culturally and in practical terms for actual sustainance workers Edit: like, yes, in theory that would lead to lower prices for consumers if the labor to produce and bring the product to the consumers table is lower but who knows that information besides the companies and their shady practices? Whats stopping them from simply pocketing that differential and just using it to improve their profit margins? Why do you trust corps to the point you can be confident that we actually so rely on slave labor to have the goods and services we need when theres basically no accountabillity to the companies incentivized to increase their own margins at the expense of consumers and society. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] masterofn001@lemmy.ca 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) Why all the layoffs then? Why can't you afford eggs? Why is healthcare the number 1 cause of bankruptcy? Why are your wages stagnant? Why have billionaires seen a 2 TRILLION $ increase? (Since last year) Immigrants, of course! But, what's this, you ask? https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2025/08/05/inside-instacarts-astro-turf-group-opposing-worker-minimum-wage Back to the front, boy. You can get yer learnin by dyin. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) ✅YOUR DOWNVOTE IN LIEU OF VIABLE ARGUMENT BETRAYS YOUR DISINGENUOUSNESS why isnt there ever punishment for the businesses hiring illegal migrants (only the illegals are punished and sanctioned/deported; its almost like there's no actual disincentive for shady employers to not base their antisocial business models around that...) and why are random low skill employers like restaurants allowed to get away with legally or ilegally hiring foreign labor when there are people able and willing to fill those vacancies domestically? The irrelevant argument that a business cannot exist at cost of employing regular citizens is not an argument for why they should exist at all and be allowed to throw up their hands and outsource like that. They are consuming and benefitting from domestic services and infrastructure, why the hell should they be able to shield themselves from taxes, underpay and exploit workers, and get paid for the pleasure and often not even need to reinvest back into the actual society they could only every exist as a product of? How is there NOT an incentive for employers to game the system by publishint job listings for random positions with inflated requirements and undervalued compensation so nobody who could otherwise do the job at the actual market price and be hired domestically wouldnt or couldnt apply and they simply wail that nobody wants to work so they can get government slaves at a fraction of the price who they can deport if the employees complain about human or labor rights violations? How would that not set a lower and lower standard for workers everywhere in general when their employers are empowered by the government to use that a bargaining wedge and keep them in line from otherwise demanding more or even basally reasonable standards when the owner buddies with a legislatoe can simply stroll in and fire everyone with the assurance they can legally employ their slave replacements and pocket all the difference to personally benefit and cover the minimal costs of next lobbying cycle along with other businesses who have an incentivr to conspire on joint efforts like this? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 2 points 1 year ago Oh boy. This explains "what about vape?" permalink fedilink source parent
[+] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) ✅YOUR DOWNVOTE IN LIEU OF VIABLE ARGUMENT BETRAYS YOUR DISINGENUOUSNESS why isnt there ever punishment for the businesses hiring illegal migrants (only the illegals are punished and sanctioned/deported; its almost like there's no actual disincentive for shady employers to not base their antisocial business models around that...) and why are random low skill employers like restaurants allowed to get away with legally or ilegally hiring foreign labor when there are people able and willing to fill those vacancies domestically? The irrelevant argument that a business cannot exist at cost of employing regular citizens is not an argument for why they should exist at all and be allowed to throw up their hands and outsource like that. They are consuming and benefitting from domestic services and infrastructure, why the hell should they be able to shield themselves from taxes, underpay and exploit workers, and get paid for the pleasure and often not even need to reinvest back into the actual society they could only every exist as a product of? How is there NOT an incentive for employers to game the system by publishint job listings for random positions with inflated requirements and undervalued compensation so nobody who could otherwise do the job at the actual market price and be hired domestically wouldnt or couldnt apply and they simply wail that nobody wants to work so they can get government slaves at a fraction of the price who they can deport if the employees complain about human or labor rights violations? How would that not set a lower and lower standard for workers everywhere in general when their employers are empowered by the government to use that a bargaining wedge and keep them in line from otherwise demanding more or even basally reasonable standards when the owner buddies with a legislatoe can simply stroll in and fire everyone with the assurance they can legally employ their slave replacements and pocket all the difference to personally benefit and cover the minimal costs of next lobbying cycle along with other businesses who have an incentivr to conspire on joint efforts like this? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 2 points 1 year ago Oh boy. This explains "what about vape?" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 2 points 1 year ago Oh boy. This explains "what about vape?" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] LePoisson@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) That's just not how the economy works. The people that immigrate work. They have labor value. They're consumers too, they're literally just people like you and me - and zooming out to macro economics that's all we are. The human widgets in the machine. Trying to blame immigrants for the ills of society is a fool's errand. Maybe instead of pumping up shareholder value in stocks, most of which are not owned or shared by the actual labor, there could be an increase of wages and benefits through taxation. Hell stocks could be given to the people who are making that revenue for the company and not to just like the pockets of the investor class who are literally making money by simply having it. I don't think people prefer to be exploited for their labor but when the USD goes farther than your local currency and you're already in bad enough straights it is worth the hardship for those folks. Also all of this is ignoring one very obvious fact. IT IS ILLEGAL TO HIRE UNDOCUMENTED MIGRANT WORKERS. Maybe .. just maybe if the companies and farm owners followed the law they claim to care so much about the demand and the benefit of "illegal" immigration would cease to exist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) Its not about blame. Its about pointing out that all this excess value they contingently generate is basically absorbed only by the businesses that illegally or unethically employ them and the party in power of government that collects increased revenues with fewer obligations that they would be required from regular citizens and also a reduced incentive to solve actual domestic problems rather than let those pumped up government and business revenues/profits to make them look good rather than attenuate that with the actual real cost to citizens who bear the brunt of all of it. Its a scam thru and thru but I'd love for you to point me objectively to how the businesses and government dont gain from this at the cost of the citizenry on the balance The worst part is it works and it incentivizes businesses to pay the bribes and lobbying fees to keep the money train running and continually devaluing labor as time goes on. Nobody but strong unions can compete with that and the abillity of workers to reliably turn to that outlet or create it is severely legislated against and disincentivized culturally and in practical terms for actual sustainance workers Edit: like, yes, in theory that would lead to lower prices for consumers if the labor to produce and bring the product to the consumers table is lower but who knows that information besides the companies and their shady practices? Whats stopping them from simply pocketing that differential and just using it to improve their profit margins? Why do you trust corps to the point you can be confident that we actually so rely on slave labor to have the goods and services we need when theres basically no accountabillity to the companies incentivized to increase their own margins at the expense of consumers and society. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) Its not about blame. Its about pointing out that all this excess value they contingently generate is basically absorbed only by the businesses that illegally or unethically employ them and the party in power of government that collects increased revenues with fewer obligations that they would be required from regular citizens and also a reduced incentive to solve actual domestic problems rather than let those pumped up government and business revenues/profits to make them look good rather than attenuate that with the actual real cost to citizens who bear the brunt of all of it. Its a scam thru and thru but I'd love for you to point me objectively to how the businesses and government dont gain from this at the cost of the citizenry on the balance The worst part is it works and it incentivizes businesses to pay the bribes and lobbying fees to keep the money train running and continually devaluing labor as time goes on. Nobody but strong unions can compete with that and the abillity of workers to reliably turn to that outlet or create it is severely legislated against and disincentivized culturally and in practical terms for actual sustainance workers Edit: like, yes, in theory that would lead to lower prices for consumers if the labor to produce and bring the product to the consumers table is lower but who knows that information besides the companies and their shady practices? Whats stopping them from simply pocketing that differential and just using it to improve their profit margins? Why do you trust corps to the point you can be confident that we actually so rely on slave labor to have the goods and services we need when theres basically no accountabillity to the companies incentivized to increase their own margins at the expense of consumers and society. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AlexLost@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (1 child) Wage suppression has never come from immigration. It comes from shady business practices and a combined effort of the owner class to separate themselves from the working class. Have you not been hearing about record profits every quarter over the past two decades? Costs for everything have gone up in sync, except for the value of your labour, which has lost incredible amounts over the past 30-40 years. They are taking the food out of our mouths to buy another Lamborghini. Immigration is a small drop in the barrel for why that's happening, but the people who are to blame want you to blame it on immigrants, and not them. You bought it, hook line and sinker. How's it feel to get played? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] masterofn001@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) So, with the mass deportations which have, according to the quota of 3000 per day, removed ~200,000 - 300,000 people, wages should be skyrocketing and the unemployment rate should be near zero. Phew. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) They should at least be deporting or jailing permanently the employers. That would end the issue overnight especially if there was a come-to-Jesus option. Theres just no disincentive and all the incentive in the workd to be a total fucker. US' biggest problem permalink fedilink source parent [–] AlexLost@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago This is not anywhere close to reality. You are already a slave, can you stop working and go enjoy life for a while? Didn't think so. We certainly let them take our worth away though, you are right there. Workers, United, are stronger than all of "them" combined, and it is exactly why they have worked very diligently to convince people that things like "unions" are not good for you and will hurt your employment, when on fact it guarantees you a fairer slice of the pie. Still far from perfect, but we have more power together than we ever will alone. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] masterofn001@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) So, with the mass deportations which have, according to the quota of 3000 per day, removed ~200,000 - 300,000 people, wages should be skyrocketing and the unemployment rate should be near zero. Phew. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) They should at least be deporting or jailing permanently the employers. That would end the issue overnight especially if there was a come-to-Jesus option. Theres just no disincentive and all the incentive in the workd to be a total fucker. US' biggest problem permalink fedilink source parent [–] AlexLost@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago This is not anywhere close to reality. You are already a slave, can you stop working and go enjoy life for a while? Didn't think so. We certainly let them take our worth away though, you are right there. Workers, United, are stronger than all of "them" combined, and it is exactly why they have worked very diligently to convince people that things like "unions" are not good for you and will hurt your employment, when on fact it guarantees you a fairer slice of the pie. Still far from perfect, but we have more power together than we ever will alone. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] masterofn001@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) So, with the mass deportations which have, according to the quota of 3000 per day, removed ~200,000 - 300,000 people, wages should be skyrocketing and the unemployment rate should be near zero. Phew. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) They should at least be deporting or jailing permanently the employers. That would end the issue overnight especially if there was a come-to-Jesus option. Theres just no disincentive and all the incentive in the workd to be a total fucker. US' biggest problem permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) They should at least be deporting or jailing permanently the employers. That would end the issue overnight especially if there was a come-to-Jesus option. Theres just no disincentive and all the incentive in the workd to be a total fucker. US' biggest problem permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AlexLost@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago This is not anywhere close to reality. You are already a slave, can you stop working and go enjoy life for a while? Didn't think so. We certainly let them take our worth away though, you are right there. Workers, United, are stronger than all of "them" combined, and it is exactly why they have worked very diligently to convince people that things like "unions" are not good for you and will hurt your employment, when on fact it guarantees you a fairer slice of the pie. Still far from perfect, but we have more power together than we ever will alone. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] oyo@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 year ago This is based on a fundamental lie, or at best misunderstanding, of the right. They claim that the labor market is zero-sum, yet money has infinite possibility. "Anyone can become rich if they work hard enough." In fact the opposite is true. A controlled money supply makes it the ultimate zero-sum game. The rich having more necessarily keeps it from others. The labor economy is free to expand, however, as new workers means new consumers. There is a point with housing, however that problem is fabricated by elites, with no cause related to immigrants. permalink fedilink source parent