▲ 508 ▼ Direct hit in Tel Aviv (lemmy.ml) submitted 1 year ago by geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml 176 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago (2 children) Go Iran! permalink fedilink source hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Apocalypteroid@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago* (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago* Iran is not the agressor, never was. And the other side is caricaturally evil permalink fedilink source parent [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml [S] 20 points 1 year ago (1 child) Watch out, the enlightened centrist has arrived! Winston Churchill, Adolf Hitler, well, they are both bad people. Let's root for neither of them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (2 children) I get what you're saying but you couldn't have chosen a worse example... Like yeah absolutely fuck Churchill lol, he's a huge part of the reason why we're in this mess with Israel now permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Still I would have rooted for Churchill when it comes to the conflict of Nazi Germany versus Britain because I am able to separate actions from blindly supporting everything. Iran too did absolutely horrible things in the past They sent a lot of children to die during their war with Iraq. The Mahsa Amani stuff everyone keeps bringing up is so lightweight but Western propagaganda is the dumbest stuff. However, currently Iran is aiding Palestine and fighting Israel and they are not sending children to die for it. So I support that action. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Mouette@jlai.lu 5 points 1 year ago Churchill ain't done shit to defeat Hitler, try with Stalin permalink fedilink source parent [–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) It's still a good example because as bad as Churchill was he was better than Hitler. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 8 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Was he, though? How many millions did he murder in the manmade Bengal famine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago* (1 child) I'm not denying Churchills crimes or painting him as good. How many would Hitler have murdered if he had similar control over the region? Just look at General plan Ost... There's a reason the USSR tried to ally with Churchill against Hitler before hostilities even started. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago Sure, you have a point, just wanted to remind people that western European countries enacted many genocides to similar scale than Nazi Germany (or greater) permalink fedilink source parent [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 year ago (1 child) Most of the allies in world war 2 were horrible, repressive regimes. I would still support them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Apocalypteroid@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 child) Iran ranks 3rd in the world in numbers of engineers. 70% of them are women. 'The second class citizens' is exagerated, and often simply lies for propaganda purposes, like the Mahsa Amini case. The last execution of homosexuals was 20 years ago, and this was for rape, not bcs homosexuality. Yes many islamic countries have issues, and these are the typical hasbara machine's ammo: "Let us genocide the Palestinians bcs they hate the gays!" Also your WW2 'democracies' were - and still are in many cases - colonisers and looters of a large part of the world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stray@pawb.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Do you have a particular source on modern LGBT realities in Iran you could recommend? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago No sorry, LGBT is not particularly my interest. Maybe go on Lemmygrad and ask them directly. A few hours ago there were some discussing the attacks. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (1 child) That’s hardly a reasonable comparison though is it? It's entirely reasonable, you just have a white supremacist double standard. The allies during WW2 were mostly functioning democracies. The vast majority of the British Empire couldn't vote and were considered lesser beings. The US had racial inequality inshrined into law and a habit of murdering minorities. The USSR I leave as an exercise to the reader. This conflict is a theocratic dictatorship I assume you mean Israel. which treats women as second class citizens Lol, the WW2 allies absolutely treated women as second class citizens, and criminalised homosexuality. Its also ghoulish the way westerners go "these countries treat minorities badly, so it's ok to kill them (including the minorities). Ukraine isn't perfect about minorities either, do you use that to say they deserve to get invaded? Oh wait, Ukraine in white. Both sides are fucking evil and to celebrate one over the other is ignorant. The British Empire was more evil than Iran by multiple orders of magnitude, yet for some reason (white supremacy) you don't take this stance on WW2 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 child) Churchill voted greatest Briton of all times in 2016. A white supremacist who used the slogan 'keep Britain white'. Called Jews 'hebrew bloodsuckers' and has murdered millions permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago And it's the same people who voted him that who are now condemning Iran and defending Israel. Whatever ideology they claim to possess, the one they actually practice is white supremacy. permalink fedilink source parent [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 year ago* (1 child) USSR? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] crazyhotpasta@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) I wasn't joking. Or was the USSR a functioning democracy? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (1 child) The USSR was a functioning democracy, moreso than its peer countries. Rather than being entirely decided by Capital, the Soviets extended democratic input to the economic sector. Soviet Democracy by Pat Sloan and This Soviet World by Anna Louise Strong are both good first-hand accounts. It certainly wasn't perfect, either, but it was a dramatic improvement on Capitalism. Zhenli has a good article on contextualizing some of the failures of democracy in early Socialism, as well as pointing out how western leftists often let the perfect Socialism in their heads be the enemy of the flawed but really existing Socialism in the real world, that faces real struggles thanks to being a really existing system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child) I'm not sure why you're thinking that I was making any kind of values judgment about the USSR whatsoever (honestly, don't really feel like getting into it with a tankie right now). All I said was that they weren't democratic (they weren't dude), and they were probably our most important ally during WW2. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago My point was about the USSR being democratic, which is historically true. They held elections, decided economic decisions collectively, and extended democracy not just from the realm of deciding which bourgeois politician or party represents you to the economic and political sectors governing policy and direction. A simple "they weren't dude" doesn't disprove historical fact. Unless, of course, your parameters for deciding if something is democratic or not is decided by vibes, there's really no reason to call it undemocratic. As an overall measure of material functions of democracy, the USSR was more democratic than the major powers of the allies and axis during World War II. They certainly had flaws with their democracy, hence the inclusion on my part of Zhenli's essay, but these flaws weren't because they had the "wrong recipe," but because democracy is a material structure that needs to be built. As for the "tankie" jab, I'm not going to apologize for being a Marxist. I agree that they were the most important force in World War II, but I disagree with your characterization of their democracy, hence why I offered sources for you or onlookers to read into to learn more. The opening of the Soviet Archives has only affirmed these primary sources as accurate, and the Zhenli essay helps us reframe how we think about building democratic structures in general. permalink fedilink source parent [+] StupidBrotherInLaw@lemmy.world -11 points 1 year ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] kreskin@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* Make your point. No one is here to watch your pathetic adhominem attacks. Stop wasting all of our time. permalink fedilink source parent [–] tane2@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago Accurate username on you permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Apocalypteroid@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago* (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago* Iran is not the agressor, never was. And the other side is caricaturally evil permalink fedilink source parent [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml [S] 20 points 1 year ago (1 child) Watch out, the enlightened centrist has arrived! Winston Churchill, Adolf Hitler, well, they are both bad people. Let's root for neither of them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (2 children) I get what you're saying but you couldn't have chosen a worse example... Like yeah absolutely fuck Churchill lol, he's a huge part of the reason why we're in this mess with Israel now permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Still I would have rooted for Churchill when it comes to the conflict of Nazi Germany versus Britain because I am able to separate actions from blindly supporting everything. Iran too did absolutely horrible things in the past They sent a lot of children to die during their war with Iraq. The Mahsa Amani stuff everyone keeps bringing up is so lightweight but Western propagaganda is the dumbest stuff. However, currently Iran is aiding Palestine and fighting Israel and they are not sending children to die for it. So I support that action. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Mouette@jlai.lu 5 points 1 year ago Churchill ain't done shit to defeat Hitler, try with Stalin permalink fedilink source parent [–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) It's still a good example because as bad as Churchill was he was better than Hitler. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 8 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Was he, though? How many millions did he murder in the manmade Bengal famine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago* (1 child) I'm not denying Churchills crimes or painting him as good. How many would Hitler have murdered if he had similar control over the region? Just look at General plan Ost... There's a reason the USSR tried to ally with Churchill against Hitler before hostilities even started. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago Sure, you have a point, just wanted to remind people that western European countries enacted many genocides to similar scale than Nazi Germany (or greater) permalink fedilink source parent [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 year ago (1 child) Most of the allies in world war 2 were horrible, repressive regimes. I would still support them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Apocalypteroid@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 child) Iran ranks 3rd in the world in numbers of engineers. 70% of them are women. 'The second class citizens' is exagerated, and often simply lies for propaganda purposes, like the Mahsa Amini case. The last execution of homosexuals was 20 years ago, and this was for rape, not bcs homosexuality. Yes many islamic countries have issues, and these are the typical hasbara machine's ammo: "Let us genocide the Palestinians bcs they hate the gays!" Also your WW2 'democracies' were - and still are in many cases - colonisers and looters of a large part of the world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stray@pawb.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Do you have a particular source on modern LGBT realities in Iran you could recommend? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago No sorry, LGBT is not particularly my interest. Maybe go on Lemmygrad and ask them directly. A few hours ago there were some discussing the attacks. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (1 child) That’s hardly a reasonable comparison though is it? It's entirely reasonable, you just have a white supremacist double standard. The allies during WW2 were mostly functioning democracies. The vast majority of the British Empire couldn't vote and were considered lesser beings. The US had racial inequality inshrined into law and a habit of murdering minorities. The USSR I leave as an exercise to the reader. This conflict is a theocratic dictatorship I assume you mean Israel. which treats women as second class citizens Lol, the WW2 allies absolutely treated women as second class citizens, and criminalised homosexuality. Its also ghoulish the way westerners go "these countries treat minorities badly, so it's ok to kill them (including the minorities). Ukraine isn't perfect about minorities either, do you use that to say they deserve to get invaded? Oh wait, Ukraine in white. Both sides are fucking evil and to celebrate one over the other is ignorant. The British Empire was more evil than Iran by multiple orders of magnitude, yet for some reason (white supremacy) you don't take this stance on WW2 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 child) Churchill voted greatest Briton of all times in 2016. A white supremacist who used the slogan 'keep Britain white'. Called Jews 'hebrew bloodsuckers' and has murdered millions permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago And it's the same people who voted him that who are now condemning Iran and defending Israel. Whatever ideology they claim to possess, the one they actually practice is white supremacy. permalink fedilink source parent [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 year ago* (1 child) USSR? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] crazyhotpasta@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) I wasn't joking. Or was the USSR a functioning democracy? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (1 child) The USSR was a functioning democracy, moreso than its peer countries. Rather than being entirely decided by Capital, the Soviets extended democratic input to the economic sector. Soviet Democracy by Pat Sloan and This Soviet World by Anna Louise Strong are both good first-hand accounts. It certainly wasn't perfect, either, but it was a dramatic improvement on Capitalism. Zhenli has a good article on contextualizing some of the failures of democracy in early Socialism, as well as pointing out how western leftists often let the perfect Socialism in their heads be the enemy of the flawed but really existing Socialism in the real world, that faces real struggles thanks to being a really existing system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child) I'm not sure why you're thinking that I was making any kind of values judgment about the USSR whatsoever (honestly, don't really feel like getting into it with a tankie right now). All I said was that they weren't democratic (they weren't dude), and they were probably our most important ally during WW2. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago My point was about the USSR being democratic, which is historically true. They held elections, decided economic decisions collectively, and extended democracy not just from the realm of deciding which bourgeois politician or party represents you to the economic and political sectors governing policy and direction. A simple "they weren't dude" doesn't disprove historical fact. Unless, of course, your parameters for deciding if something is democratic or not is decided by vibes, there's really no reason to call it undemocratic. As an overall measure of material functions of democracy, the USSR was more democratic than the major powers of the allies and axis during World War II. They certainly had flaws with their democracy, hence the inclusion on my part of Zhenli's essay, but these flaws weren't because they had the "wrong recipe," but because democracy is a material structure that needs to be built. As for the "tankie" jab, I'm not going to apologize for being a Marxist. I agree that they were the most important force in World War II, but I disagree with your characterization of their democracy, hence why I offered sources for you or onlookers to read into to learn more. The opening of the Soviet Archives has only affirmed these primary sources as accurate, and the Zhenli essay helps us reframe how we think about building democratic structures in general. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago* Iran is not the agressor, never was. And the other side is caricaturally evil permalink fedilink source parent
[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml [S] 20 points 1 year ago (1 child) Watch out, the enlightened centrist has arrived! Winston Churchill, Adolf Hitler, well, they are both bad people. Let's root for neither of them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (2 children) I get what you're saying but you couldn't have chosen a worse example... Like yeah absolutely fuck Churchill lol, he's a huge part of the reason why we're in this mess with Israel now permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Still I would have rooted for Churchill when it comes to the conflict of Nazi Germany versus Britain because I am able to separate actions from blindly supporting everything. Iran too did absolutely horrible things in the past They sent a lot of children to die during their war with Iraq. The Mahsa Amani stuff everyone keeps bringing up is so lightweight but Western propagaganda is the dumbest stuff. However, currently Iran is aiding Palestine and fighting Israel and they are not sending children to die for it. So I support that action. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Mouette@jlai.lu 5 points 1 year ago Churchill ain't done shit to defeat Hitler, try with Stalin permalink fedilink source parent [–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) It's still a good example because as bad as Churchill was he was better than Hitler. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 8 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Was he, though? How many millions did he murder in the manmade Bengal famine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago* (1 child) I'm not denying Churchills crimes or painting him as good. How many would Hitler have murdered if he had similar control over the region? Just look at General plan Ost... There's a reason the USSR tried to ally with Churchill against Hitler before hostilities even started. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago Sure, you have a point, just wanted to remind people that western European countries enacted many genocides to similar scale than Nazi Germany (or greater) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (2 children) I get what you're saying but you couldn't have chosen a worse example... Like yeah absolutely fuck Churchill lol, he's a huge part of the reason why we're in this mess with Israel now permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Still I would have rooted for Churchill when it comes to the conflict of Nazi Germany versus Britain because I am able to separate actions from blindly supporting everything. Iran too did absolutely horrible things in the past They sent a lot of children to die during their war with Iraq. The Mahsa Amani stuff everyone keeps bringing up is so lightweight but Western propagaganda is the dumbest stuff. However, currently Iran is aiding Palestine and fighting Israel and they are not sending children to die for it. So I support that action. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Mouette@jlai.lu 5 points 1 year ago Churchill ain't done shit to defeat Hitler, try with Stalin permalink fedilink source parent [–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) It's still a good example because as bad as Churchill was he was better than Hitler. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 8 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Was he, though? How many millions did he murder in the manmade Bengal famine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago* (1 child) I'm not denying Churchills crimes or painting him as good. How many would Hitler have murdered if he had similar control over the region? Just look at General plan Ost... There's a reason the USSR tried to ally with Churchill against Hitler before hostilities even started. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago Sure, you have a point, just wanted to remind people that western European countries enacted many genocides to similar scale than Nazi Germany (or greater) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Still I would have rooted for Churchill when it comes to the conflict of Nazi Germany versus Britain because I am able to separate actions from blindly supporting everything. Iran too did absolutely horrible things in the past They sent a lot of children to die during their war with Iraq. The Mahsa Amani stuff everyone keeps bringing up is so lightweight but Western propagaganda is the dumbest stuff. However, currently Iran is aiding Palestine and fighting Israel and they are not sending children to die for it. So I support that action. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Mouette@jlai.lu 5 points 1 year ago Churchill ain't done shit to defeat Hitler, try with Stalin permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Mouette@jlai.lu 5 points 1 year ago Churchill ain't done shit to defeat Hitler, try with Stalin permalink fedilink source parent
[–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) It's still a good example because as bad as Churchill was he was better than Hitler. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 8 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Was he, though? How many millions did he murder in the manmade Bengal famine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago* (1 child) I'm not denying Churchills crimes or painting him as good. How many would Hitler have murdered if he had similar control over the region? Just look at General plan Ost... There's a reason the USSR tried to ally with Churchill against Hitler before hostilities even started. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago Sure, you have a point, just wanted to remind people that western European countries enacted many genocides to similar scale than Nazi Germany (or greater) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 8 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Was he, though? How many millions did he murder in the manmade Bengal famine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago* (1 child) I'm not denying Churchills crimes or painting him as good. How many would Hitler have murdered if he had similar control over the region? Just look at General plan Ost... There's a reason the USSR tried to ally with Churchill against Hitler before hostilities even started. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago Sure, you have a point, just wanted to remind people that western European countries enacted many genocides to similar scale than Nazi Germany (or greater) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago* (1 child) I'm not denying Churchills crimes or painting him as good. How many would Hitler have murdered if he had similar control over the region? Just look at General plan Ost... There's a reason the USSR tried to ally with Churchill against Hitler before hostilities even started. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago Sure, you have a point, just wanted to remind people that western European countries enacted many genocides to similar scale than Nazi Germany (or greater) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago Sure, you have a point, just wanted to remind people that western European countries enacted many genocides to similar scale than Nazi Germany (or greater) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 year ago (1 child) Most of the allies in world war 2 were horrible, repressive regimes. I would still support them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Apocalypteroid@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 child) Iran ranks 3rd in the world in numbers of engineers. 70% of them are women. 'The second class citizens' is exagerated, and often simply lies for propaganda purposes, like the Mahsa Amini case. The last execution of homosexuals was 20 years ago, and this was for rape, not bcs homosexuality. Yes many islamic countries have issues, and these are the typical hasbara machine's ammo: "Let us genocide the Palestinians bcs they hate the gays!" Also your WW2 'democracies' were - and still are in many cases - colonisers and looters of a large part of the world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stray@pawb.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Do you have a particular source on modern LGBT realities in Iran you could recommend? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago No sorry, LGBT is not particularly my interest. Maybe go on Lemmygrad and ask them directly. A few hours ago there were some discussing the attacks. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (1 child) That’s hardly a reasonable comparison though is it? It's entirely reasonable, you just have a white supremacist double standard. The allies during WW2 were mostly functioning democracies. The vast majority of the British Empire couldn't vote and were considered lesser beings. The US had racial inequality inshrined into law and a habit of murdering minorities. The USSR I leave as an exercise to the reader. This conflict is a theocratic dictatorship I assume you mean Israel. which treats women as second class citizens Lol, the WW2 allies absolutely treated women as second class citizens, and criminalised homosexuality. Its also ghoulish the way westerners go "these countries treat minorities badly, so it's ok to kill them (including the minorities). Ukraine isn't perfect about minorities either, do you use that to say they deserve to get invaded? Oh wait, Ukraine in white. Both sides are fucking evil and to celebrate one over the other is ignorant. The British Empire was more evil than Iran by multiple orders of magnitude, yet for some reason (white supremacy) you don't take this stance on WW2 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 child) Churchill voted greatest Briton of all times in 2016. A white supremacist who used the slogan 'keep Britain white'. Called Jews 'hebrew bloodsuckers' and has murdered millions permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago And it's the same people who voted him that who are now condemning Iran and defending Israel. Whatever ideology they claim to possess, the one they actually practice is white supremacy. permalink fedilink source parent [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 year ago* (1 child) USSR? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] crazyhotpasta@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) I wasn't joking. Or was the USSR a functioning democracy? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (1 child) The USSR was a functioning democracy, moreso than its peer countries. Rather than being entirely decided by Capital, the Soviets extended democratic input to the economic sector. Soviet Democracy by Pat Sloan and This Soviet World by Anna Louise Strong are both good first-hand accounts. It certainly wasn't perfect, either, but it was a dramatic improvement on Capitalism. Zhenli has a good article on contextualizing some of the failures of democracy in early Socialism, as well as pointing out how western leftists often let the perfect Socialism in their heads be the enemy of the flawed but really existing Socialism in the real world, that faces real struggles thanks to being a really existing system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child) I'm not sure why you're thinking that I was making any kind of values judgment about the USSR whatsoever (honestly, don't really feel like getting into it with a tankie right now). All I said was that they weren't democratic (they weren't dude), and they were probably our most important ally during WW2. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago My point was about the USSR being democratic, which is historically true. They held elections, decided economic decisions collectively, and extended democracy not just from the realm of deciding which bourgeois politician or party represents you to the economic and political sectors governing policy and direction. A simple "they weren't dude" doesn't disprove historical fact. Unless, of course, your parameters for deciding if something is democratic or not is decided by vibes, there's really no reason to call it undemocratic. As an overall measure of material functions of democracy, the USSR was more democratic than the major powers of the allies and axis during World War II. They certainly had flaws with their democracy, hence the inclusion on my part of Zhenli's essay, but these flaws weren't because they had the "wrong recipe," but because democracy is a material structure that needs to be built. As for the "tankie" jab, I'm not going to apologize for being a Marxist. I agree that they were the most important force in World War II, but I disagree with your characterization of their democracy, hence why I offered sources for you or onlookers to read into to learn more. The opening of the Soviet Archives has only affirmed these primary sources as accurate, and the Zhenli essay helps us reframe how we think about building democratic structures in general. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Apocalypteroid@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 child) Iran ranks 3rd in the world in numbers of engineers. 70% of them are women. 'The second class citizens' is exagerated, and often simply lies for propaganda purposes, like the Mahsa Amini case. The last execution of homosexuals was 20 years ago, and this was for rape, not bcs homosexuality. Yes many islamic countries have issues, and these are the typical hasbara machine's ammo: "Let us genocide the Palestinians bcs they hate the gays!" Also your WW2 'democracies' were - and still are in many cases - colonisers and looters of a large part of the world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stray@pawb.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Do you have a particular source on modern LGBT realities in Iran you could recommend? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago No sorry, LGBT is not particularly my interest. Maybe go on Lemmygrad and ask them directly. A few hours ago there were some discussing the attacks. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (1 child) That’s hardly a reasonable comparison though is it? It's entirely reasonable, you just have a white supremacist double standard. The allies during WW2 were mostly functioning democracies. The vast majority of the British Empire couldn't vote and were considered lesser beings. The US had racial inequality inshrined into law and a habit of murdering minorities. The USSR I leave as an exercise to the reader. This conflict is a theocratic dictatorship I assume you mean Israel. which treats women as second class citizens Lol, the WW2 allies absolutely treated women as second class citizens, and criminalised homosexuality. Its also ghoulish the way westerners go "these countries treat minorities badly, so it's ok to kill them (including the minorities). Ukraine isn't perfect about minorities either, do you use that to say they deserve to get invaded? Oh wait, Ukraine in white. Both sides are fucking evil and to celebrate one over the other is ignorant. The British Empire was more evil than Iran by multiple orders of magnitude, yet for some reason (white supremacy) you don't take this stance on WW2 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 child) Churchill voted greatest Briton of all times in 2016. A white supremacist who used the slogan 'keep Britain white'. Called Jews 'hebrew bloodsuckers' and has murdered millions permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago And it's the same people who voted him that who are now condemning Iran and defending Israel. Whatever ideology they claim to possess, the one they actually practice is white supremacy. permalink fedilink source parent [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 year ago* (1 child) USSR? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] crazyhotpasta@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) I wasn't joking. Or was the USSR a functioning democracy? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (1 child) The USSR was a functioning democracy, moreso than its peer countries. Rather than being entirely decided by Capital, the Soviets extended democratic input to the economic sector. Soviet Democracy by Pat Sloan and This Soviet World by Anna Louise Strong are both good first-hand accounts. It certainly wasn't perfect, either, but it was a dramatic improvement on Capitalism. Zhenli has a good article on contextualizing some of the failures of democracy in early Socialism, as well as pointing out how western leftists often let the perfect Socialism in their heads be the enemy of the flawed but really existing Socialism in the real world, that faces real struggles thanks to being a really existing system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child) I'm not sure why you're thinking that I was making any kind of values judgment about the USSR whatsoever (honestly, don't really feel like getting into it with a tankie right now). All I said was that they weren't democratic (they weren't dude), and they were probably our most important ally during WW2. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago My point was about the USSR being democratic, which is historically true. They held elections, decided economic decisions collectively, and extended democracy not just from the realm of deciding which bourgeois politician or party represents you to the economic and political sectors governing policy and direction. A simple "they weren't dude" doesn't disprove historical fact. Unless, of course, your parameters for deciding if something is democratic or not is decided by vibes, there's really no reason to call it undemocratic. As an overall measure of material functions of democracy, the USSR was more democratic than the major powers of the allies and axis during World War II. They certainly had flaws with their democracy, hence the inclusion on my part of Zhenli's essay, but these flaws weren't because they had the "wrong recipe," but because democracy is a material structure that needs to be built. As for the "tankie" jab, I'm not going to apologize for being a Marxist. I agree that they were the most important force in World War II, but I disagree with your characterization of their democracy, hence why I offered sources for you or onlookers to read into to learn more. The opening of the Soviet Archives has only affirmed these primary sources as accurate, and the Zhenli essay helps us reframe how we think about building democratic structures in general. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 child) Iran ranks 3rd in the world in numbers of engineers. 70% of them are women. 'The second class citizens' is exagerated, and often simply lies for propaganda purposes, like the Mahsa Amini case. The last execution of homosexuals was 20 years ago, and this was for rape, not bcs homosexuality. Yes many islamic countries have issues, and these are the typical hasbara machine's ammo: "Let us genocide the Palestinians bcs they hate the gays!" Also your WW2 'democracies' were - and still are in many cases - colonisers and looters of a large part of the world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stray@pawb.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Do you have a particular source on modern LGBT realities in Iran you could recommend? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago No sorry, LGBT is not particularly my interest. Maybe go on Lemmygrad and ask them directly. A few hours ago there were some discussing the attacks. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] stray@pawb.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Do you have a particular source on modern LGBT realities in Iran you could recommend? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago No sorry, LGBT is not particularly my interest. Maybe go on Lemmygrad and ask them directly. A few hours ago there were some discussing the attacks. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago No sorry, LGBT is not particularly my interest. Maybe go on Lemmygrad and ask them directly. A few hours ago there were some discussing the attacks. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (1 child) That’s hardly a reasonable comparison though is it? It's entirely reasonable, you just have a white supremacist double standard. The allies during WW2 were mostly functioning democracies. The vast majority of the British Empire couldn't vote and were considered lesser beings. The US had racial inequality inshrined into law and a habit of murdering minorities. The USSR I leave as an exercise to the reader. This conflict is a theocratic dictatorship I assume you mean Israel. which treats women as second class citizens Lol, the WW2 allies absolutely treated women as second class citizens, and criminalised homosexuality. Its also ghoulish the way westerners go "these countries treat minorities badly, so it's ok to kill them (including the minorities). Ukraine isn't perfect about minorities either, do you use that to say they deserve to get invaded? Oh wait, Ukraine in white. Both sides are fucking evil and to celebrate one over the other is ignorant. The British Empire was more evil than Iran by multiple orders of magnitude, yet for some reason (white supremacy) you don't take this stance on WW2 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 child) Churchill voted greatest Briton of all times in 2016. A white supremacist who used the slogan 'keep Britain white'. Called Jews 'hebrew bloodsuckers' and has murdered millions permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago And it's the same people who voted him that who are now condemning Iran and defending Israel. Whatever ideology they claim to possess, the one they actually practice is white supremacy. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 child) Churchill voted greatest Briton of all times in 2016. A white supremacist who used the slogan 'keep Britain white'. Called Jews 'hebrew bloodsuckers' and has murdered millions permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago And it's the same people who voted him that who are now condemning Iran and defending Israel. Whatever ideology they claim to possess, the one they actually practice is white supremacy. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago And it's the same people who voted him that who are now condemning Iran and defending Israel. Whatever ideology they claim to possess, the one they actually practice is white supremacy. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 year ago* (1 child) USSR? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] crazyhotpasta@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) I wasn't joking. Or was the USSR a functioning democracy? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (1 child) The USSR was a functioning democracy, moreso than its peer countries. Rather than being entirely decided by Capital, the Soviets extended democratic input to the economic sector. Soviet Democracy by Pat Sloan and This Soviet World by Anna Louise Strong are both good first-hand accounts. It certainly wasn't perfect, either, but it was a dramatic improvement on Capitalism. Zhenli has a good article on contextualizing some of the failures of democracy in early Socialism, as well as pointing out how western leftists often let the perfect Socialism in their heads be the enemy of the flawed but really existing Socialism in the real world, that faces real struggles thanks to being a really existing system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child) I'm not sure why you're thinking that I was making any kind of values judgment about the USSR whatsoever (honestly, don't really feel like getting into it with a tankie right now). All I said was that they weren't democratic (they weren't dude), and they were probably our most important ally during WW2. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago My point was about the USSR being democratic, which is historically true. They held elections, decided economic decisions collectively, and extended democracy not just from the realm of deciding which bourgeois politician or party represents you to the economic and political sectors governing policy and direction. A simple "they weren't dude" doesn't disprove historical fact. Unless, of course, your parameters for deciding if something is democratic or not is decided by vibes, there's really no reason to call it undemocratic. As an overall measure of material functions of democracy, the USSR was more democratic than the major powers of the allies and axis during World War II. They certainly had flaws with their democracy, hence the inclusion on my part of Zhenli's essay, but these flaws weren't because they had the "wrong recipe," but because democracy is a material structure that needs to be built. As for the "tankie" jab, I'm not going to apologize for being a Marxist. I agree that they were the most important force in World War II, but I disagree with your characterization of their democracy, hence why I offered sources for you or onlookers to read into to learn more. The opening of the Soviet Archives has only affirmed these primary sources as accurate, and the Zhenli essay helps us reframe how we think about building democratic structures in general. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] crazyhotpasta@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) I wasn't joking. Or was the USSR a functioning democracy? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (1 child) The USSR was a functioning democracy, moreso than its peer countries. Rather than being entirely decided by Capital, the Soviets extended democratic input to the economic sector. Soviet Democracy by Pat Sloan and This Soviet World by Anna Louise Strong are both good first-hand accounts. It certainly wasn't perfect, either, but it was a dramatic improvement on Capitalism. Zhenli has a good article on contextualizing some of the failures of democracy in early Socialism, as well as pointing out how western leftists often let the perfect Socialism in their heads be the enemy of the flawed but really existing Socialism in the real world, that faces real struggles thanks to being a really existing system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child) I'm not sure why you're thinking that I was making any kind of values judgment about the USSR whatsoever (honestly, don't really feel like getting into it with a tankie right now). All I said was that they weren't democratic (they weren't dude), and they were probably our most important ally during WW2. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago My point was about the USSR being democratic, which is historically true. They held elections, decided economic decisions collectively, and extended democracy not just from the realm of deciding which bourgeois politician or party represents you to the economic and political sectors governing policy and direction. A simple "they weren't dude" doesn't disprove historical fact. Unless, of course, your parameters for deciding if something is democratic or not is decided by vibes, there's really no reason to call it undemocratic. As an overall measure of material functions of democracy, the USSR was more democratic than the major powers of the allies and axis during World War II. They certainly had flaws with their democracy, hence the inclusion on my part of Zhenli's essay, but these flaws weren't because they had the "wrong recipe," but because democracy is a material structure that needs to be built. As for the "tankie" jab, I'm not going to apologize for being a Marxist. I agree that they were the most important force in World War II, but I disagree with your characterization of their democracy, hence why I offered sources for you or onlookers to read into to learn more. The opening of the Soviet Archives has only affirmed these primary sources as accurate, and the Zhenli essay helps us reframe how we think about building democratic structures in general. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) I wasn't joking. Or was the USSR a functioning democracy? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (1 child) The USSR was a functioning democracy, moreso than its peer countries. Rather than being entirely decided by Capital, the Soviets extended democratic input to the economic sector. Soviet Democracy by Pat Sloan and This Soviet World by Anna Louise Strong are both good first-hand accounts. It certainly wasn't perfect, either, but it was a dramatic improvement on Capitalism. Zhenli has a good article on contextualizing some of the failures of democracy in early Socialism, as well as pointing out how western leftists often let the perfect Socialism in their heads be the enemy of the flawed but really existing Socialism in the real world, that faces real struggles thanks to being a really existing system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child) I'm not sure why you're thinking that I was making any kind of values judgment about the USSR whatsoever (honestly, don't really feel like getting into it with a tankie right now). All I said was that they weren't democratic (they weren't dude), and they were probably our most important ally during WW2. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago My point was about the USSR being democratic, which is historically true. They held elections, decided economic decisions collectively, and extended democracy not just from the realm of deciding which bourgeois politician or party represents you to the economic and political sectors governing policy and direction. A simple "they weren't dude" doesn't disprove historical fact. Unless, of course, your parameters for deciding if something is democratic or not is decided by vibes, there's really no reason to call it undemocratic. As an overall measure of material functions of democracy, the USSR was more democratic than the major powers of the allies and axis during World War II. They certainly had flaws with their democracy, hence the inclusion on my part of Zhenli's essay, but these flaws weren't because they had the "wrong recipe," but because democracy is a material structure that needs to be built. As for the "tankie" jab, I'm not going to apologize for being a Marxist. I agree that they were the most important force in World War II, but I disagree with your characterization of their democracy, hence why I offered sources for you or onlookers to read into to learn more. The opening of the Soviet Archives has only affirmed these primary sources as accurate, and the Zhenli essay helps us reframe how we think about building democratic structures in general. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (1 child) The USSR was a functioning democracy, moreso than its peer countries. Rather than being entirely decided by Capital, the Soviets extended democratic input to the economic sector. Soviet Democracy by Pat Sloan and This Soviet World by Anna Louise Strong are both good first-hand accounts. It certainly wasn't perfect, either, but it was a dramatic improvement on Capitalism. Zhenli has a good article on contextualizing some of the failures of democracy in early Socialism, as well as pointing out how western leftists often let the perfect Socialism in their heads be the enemy of the flawed but really existing Socialism in the real world, that faces real struggles thanks to being a really existing system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child) I'm not sure why you're thinking that I was making any kind of values judgment about the USSR whatsoever (honestly, don't really feel like getting into it with a tankie right now). All I said was that they weren't democratic (they weren't dude), and they were probably our most important ally during WW2. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago My point was about the USSR being democratic, which is historically true. They held elections, decided economic decisions collectively, and extended democracy not just from the realm of deciding which bourgeois politician or party represents you to the economic and political sectors governing policy and direction. A simple "they weren't dude" doesn't disprove historical fact. Unless, of course, your parameters for deciding if something is democratic or not is decided by vibes, there's really no reason to call it undemocratic. As an overall measure of material functions of democracy, the USSR was more democratic than the major powers of the allies and axis during World War II. They certainly had flaws with their democracy, hence the inclusion on my part of Zhenli's essay, but these flaws weren't because they had the "wrong recipe," but because democracy is a material structure that needs to be built. As for the "tankie" jab, I'm not going to apologize for being a Marxist. I agree that they were the most important force in World War II, but I disagree with your characterization of their democracy, hence why I offered sources for you or onlookers to read into to learn more. The opening of the Soviet Archives has only affirmed these primary sources as accurate, and the Zhenli essay helps us reframe how we think about building democratic structures in general. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child) I'm not sure why you're thinking that I was making any kind of values judgment about the USSR whatsoever (honestly, don't really feel like getting into it with a tankie right now). All I said was that they weren't democratic (they weren't dude), and they were probably our most important ally during WW2. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago My point was about the USSR being democratic, which is historically true. They held elections, decided economic decisions collectively, and extended democracy not just from the realm of deciding which bourgeois politician or party represents you to the economic and political sectors governing policy and direction. A simple "they weren't dude" doesn't disprove historical fact. Unless, of course, your parameters for deciding if something is democratic or not is decided by vibes, there's really no reason to call it undemocratic. As an overall measure of material functions of democracy, the USSR was more democratic than the major powers of the allies and axis during World War II. They certainly had flaws with their democracy, hence the inclusion on my part of Zhenli's essay, but these flaws weren't because they had the "wrong recipe," but because democracy is a material structure that needs to be built. As for the "tankie" jab, I'm not going to apologize for being a Marxist. I agree that they were the most important force in World War II, but I disagree with your characterization of their democracy, hence why I offered sources for you or onlookers to read into to learn more. The opening of the Soviet Archives has only affirmed these primary sources as accurate, and the Zhenli essay helps us reframe how we think about building democratic structures in general. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago My point was about the USSR being democratic, which is historically true. They held elections, decided economic decisions collectively, and extended democracy not just from the realm of deciding which bourgeois politician or party represents you to the economic and political sectors governing policy and direction. A simple "they weren't dude" doesn't disprove historical fact. Unless, of course, your parameters for deciding if something is democratic or not is decided by vibes, there's really no reason to call it undemocratic. As an overall measure of material functions of democracy, the USSR was more democratic than the major powers of the allies and axis during World War II. They certainly had flaws with their democracy, hence the inclusion on my part of Zhenli's essay, but these flaws weren't because they had the "wrong recipe," but because democracy is a material structure that needs to be built. As for the "tankie" jab, I'm not going to apologize for being a Marxist. I agree that they were the most important force in World War II, but I disagree with your characterization of their democracy, hence why I offered sources for you or onlookers to read into to learn more. The opening of the Soviet Archives has only affirmed these primary sources as accurate, and the Zhenli essay helps us reframe how we think about building democratic structures in general. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] StupidBrotherInLaw@lemmy.world -11 points 1 year ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] kreskin@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* Make your point. No one is here to watch your pathetic adhominem attacks. Stop wasting all of our time. permalink fedilink source parent [–] tane2@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago Accurate username on you permalink fedilink source parent
[–] kreskin@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* Make your point. No one is here to watch your pathetic adhominem attacks. Stop wasting all of our time. permalink fedilink source parent