▲ 88 ▼ C is one of the most energy saving language (lemmy.world) submitted 1 year ago by chimay@lemmy.world to c/programming@programming.dev 87 comments fedilink hide all child comments cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/31184706 C is one of the top languages in terms of speed, memory and energy https://www.threads.com/@engineerscodex/post/C9_R-uhvGbv?hl=en
[–] Mihies@programming.dev 14 points 1 year ago (2 children) Also the difference between TS and JS doesn't make sense at first glance. 🤷♂️ I guess I need to read the research. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Feyd@programming.dev 6 points 1 year ago My first thought is perhaps the TS is not targeting ESNext so they're getting hit with polyfills or something permalink fedilink source parent [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (3 children) It does, the "compiler" adds a bunch of extra garbage for extra safety that really does have an impact. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] pHr34kY@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (2 children) I thought the idea of TS is that it strongly types everything so that the JS interpreter doesn't waste all of its time trying to figure out the best way to store a variable in RAM. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Feyd@programming.dev 9 points 1 year ago TS is compiled to JS, so the JS interpreter isn't privy to the type information. TS is basically a robust static analysis tool permalink fedilink source parent [–] Colloidal@programming.dev 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) The code is ultimately ran in a JS interpreter. AFAIK TS transpiles into JS, there's no TS specific interpreter. But such a huge difference is unexpected to me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) Its really not, have you noticed how an enum is transpiled? you end up with a function... a lot of other things follow the same pattern. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Colloidal@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago (2 children) Nope, have not noticed because I hate JavaScript with a passion. Thanks for educating me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Feyd@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago Just FYI the example that person gave would absolutely not explain a huge performance difference. I don't think they understand what they're looking at. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) fair enough :D but it does happen and there are reasons for that: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47363996/why-does-an-enum-transpile-into-a-function permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Colloidal@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago Thanks! I hate JavaScript even more now 😄 permalink fedilink source parent [–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) No they don't. Enums are actually unique in being the only Typescript feature that requires code gen, and they consider that to have been a mistake. In any case that's not the cause of the difference here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) This isn't true, there are other features that "emit code", that includes: namespaces, decorators and some cases even async / await (when targeting ES5 or ES6). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago Ah yeah I forgot about namespaces. I don't think they're a popular feature. The other two only generate code for backwards compatibility. When targeting the latest JavaScript versions they don't generate anything. Ok decorators are technically still only a proposal so they're slightly jumping the gun there, but the point remains. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mbtrhcs@feddit.org 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Only if you choose a lower language level as the target. Given these results I suspect the researchers had it output JS for something like ES5, meaning a bunch of polyfills for old browsers that they didn't include in the JS-native implementation.. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Not really, because this stuff also happens: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/20278095/enums-in-typescript-what-is-the-javascript-code-doing a function call always has an inpact. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mbtrhcs@feddit.org 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Yeah sure, you found the one notorious TypeScript feature that actually emits code, but a) this feature is recommended against and not used much to my knowledge and, more importantly, b) you cannot tell me that you genuinely believe the use of TypeScript enums – which generate extra function calls for a very limited number of operations – will 5x the energy consumption of the entire program. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago This isn't true, there are other features that "emit code", that includes: namespaces, decorators and some cases even async / await (when targeting ES5 or ES6). permalink fedilink source parent [–] Feyd@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Care to elaborate? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Here's a good example: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47363996/why-does-an-enum-transpile-into-a-function permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Feyd@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago That is not a good example. That is an immediate function call happening once when the program starts and certainly does not have a large impact like you are suggesting. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Feyd@programming.dev 6 points 1 year ago My first thought is perhaps the TS is not targeting ESNext so they're getting hit with polyfills or something permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (3 children) It does, the "compiler" adds a bunch of extra garbage for extra safety that really does have an impact. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] pHr34kY@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (2 children) I thought the idea of TS is that it strongly types everything so that the JS interpreter doesn't waste all of its time trying to figure out the best way to store a variable in RAM. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Feyd@programming.dev 9 points 1 year ago TS is compiled to JS, so the JS interpreter isn't privy to the type information. TS is basically a robust static analysis tool permalink fedilink source parent [–] Colloidal@programming.dev 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) The code is ultimately ran in a JS interpreter. AFAIK TS transpiles into JS, there's no TS specific interpreter. But such a huge difference is unexpected to me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) Its really not, have you noticed how an enum is transpiled? you end up with a function... a lot of other things follow the same pattern. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Colloidal@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago (2 children) Nope, have not noticed because I hate JavaScript with a passion. Thanks for educating me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Feyd@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago Just FYI the example that person gave would absolutely not explain a huge performance difference. I don't think they understand what they're looking at. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) fair enough :D but it does happen and there are reasons for that: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47363996/why-does-an-enum-transpile-into-a-function permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Colloidal@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago Thanks! I hate JavaScript even more now 😄 permalink fedilink source parent [–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) No they don't. Enums are actually unique in being the only Typescript feature that requires code gen, and they consider that to have been a mistake. In any case that's not the cause of the difference here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) This isn't true, there are other features that "emit code", that includes: namespaces, decorators and some cases even async / await (when targeting ES5 or ES6). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago Ah yeah I forgot about namespaces. I don't think they're a popular feature. The other two only generate code for backwards compatibility. When targeting the latest JavaScript versions they don't generate anything. Ok decorators are technically still only a proposal so they're slightly jumping the gun there, but the point remains. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mbtrhcs@feddit.org 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Only if you choose a lower language level as the target. Given these results I suspect the researchers had it output JS for something like ES5, meaning a bunch of polyfills for old browsers that they didn't include in the JS-native implementation.. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Not really, because this stuff also happens: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/20278095/enums-in-typescript-what-is-the-javascript-code-doing a function call always has an inpact. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mbtrhcs@feddit.org 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Yeah sure, you found the one notorious TypeScript feature that actually emits code, but a) this feature is recommended against and not used much to my knowledge and, more importantly, b) you cannot tell me that you genuinely believe the use of TypeScript enums – which generate extra function calls for a very limited number of operations – will 5x the energy consumption of the entire program. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago This isn't true, there are other features that "emit code", that includes: namespaces, decorators and some cases even async / await (when targeting ES5 or ES6). permalink fedilink source parent [–] Feyd@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Care to elaborate? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Here's a good example: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47363996/why-does-an-enum-transpile-into-a-function permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Feyd@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago That is not a good example. That is an immediate function call happening once when the program starts and certainly does not have a large impact like you are suggesting. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] pHr34kY@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (2 children) I thought the idea of TS is that it strongly types everything so that the JS interpreter doesn't waste all of its time trying to figure out the best way to store a variable in RAM. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Feyd@programming.dev 9 points 1 year ago TS is compiled to JS, so the JS interpreter isn't privy to the type information. TS is basically a robust static analysis tool permalink fedilink source parent [–] Colloidal@programming.dev 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) The code is ultimately ran in a JS interpreter. AFAIK TS transpiles into JS, there's no TS specific interpreter. But such a huge difference is unexpected to me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) Its really not, have you noticed how an enum is transpiled? you end up with a function... a lot of other things follow the same pattern. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Colloidal@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago (2 children) Nope, have not noticed because I hate JavaScript with a passion. Thanks for educating me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Feyd@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago Just FYI the example that person gave would absolutely not explain a huge performance difference. I don't think they understand what they're looking at. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) fair enough :D but it does happen and there are reasons for that: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47363996/why-does-an-enum-transpile-into-a-function permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Colloidal@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago Thanks! I hate JavaScript even more now 😄 permalink fedilink source parent [–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) No they don't. Enums are actually unique in being the only Typescript feature that requires code gen, and they consider that to have been a mistake. In any case that's not the cause of the difference here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) This isn't true, there are other features that "emit code", that includes: namespaces, decorators and some cases even async / await (when targeting ES5 or ES6). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago Ah yeah I forgot about namespaces. I don't think they're a popular feature. The other two only generate code for backwards compatibility. When targeting the latest JavaScript versions they don't generate anything. Ok decorators are technically still only a proposal so they're slightly jumping the gun there, but the point remains. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Feyd@programming.dev 9 points 1 year ago TS is compiled to JS, so the JS interpreter isn't privy to the type information. TS is basically a robust static analysis tool permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Colloidal@programming.dev 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) The code is ultimately ran in a JS interpreter. AFAIK TS transpiles into JS, there's no TS specific interpreter. But such a huge difference is unexpected to me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) Its really not, have you noticed how an enum is transpiled? you end up with a function... a lot of other things follow the same pattern. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Colloidal@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago (2 children) Nope, have not noticed because I hate JavaScript with a passion. Thanks for educating me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Feyd@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago Just FYI the example that person gave would absolutely not explain a huge performance difference. I don't think they understand what they're looking at. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) fair enough :D but it does happen and there are reasons for that: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47363996/why-does-an-enum-transpile-into-a-function permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Colloidal@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago Thanks! I hate JavaScript even more now 😄 permalink fedilink source parent [–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) No they don't. Enums are actually unique in being the only Typescript feature that requires code gen, and they consider that to have been a mistake. In any case that's not the cause of the difference here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) This isn't true, there are other features that "emit code", that includes: namespaces, decorators and some cases even async / await (when targeting ES5 or ES6). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago Ah yeah I forgot about namespaces. I don't think they're a popular feature. The other two only generate code for backwards compatibility. When targeting the latest JavaScript versions they don't generate anything. Ok decorators are technically still only a proposal so they're slightly jumping the gun there, but the point remains. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) Its really not, have you noticed how an enum is transpiled? you end up with a function... a lot of other things follow the same pattern. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Colloidal@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago (2 children) Nope, have not noticed because I hate JavaScript with a passion. Thanks for educating me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Feyd@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago Just FYI the example that person gave would absolutely not explain a huge performance difference. I don't think they understand what they're looking at. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) fair enough :D but it does happen and there are reasons for that: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47363996/why-does-an-enum-transpile-into-a-function permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Colloidal@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago Thanks! I hate JavaScript even more now 😄 permalink fedilink source parent [–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) No they don't. Enums are actually unique in being the only Typescript feature that requires code gen, and they consider that to have been a mistake. In any case that's not the cause of the difference here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) This isn't true, there are other features that "emit code", that includes: namespaces, decorators and some cases even async / await (when targeting ES5 or ES6). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago Ah yeah I forgot about namespaces. I don't think they're a popular feature. The other two only generate code for backwards compatibility. When targeting the latest JavaScript versions they don't generate anything. Ok decorators are technically still only a proposal so they're slightly jumping the gun there, but the point remains. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Colloidal@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago (2 children) Nope, have not noticed because I hate JavaScript with a passion. Thanks for educating me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Feyd@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago Just FYI the example that person gave would absolutely not explain a huge performance difference. I don't think they understand what they're looking at. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) fair enough :D but it does happen and there are reasons for that: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47363996/why-does-an-enum-transpile-into-a-function permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Colloidal@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago Thanks! I hate JavaScript even more now 😄 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Feyd@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago Just FYI the example that person gave would absolutely not explain a huge performance difference. I don't think they understand what they're looking at. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) fair enough :D but it does happen and there are reasons for that: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47363996/why-does-an-enum-transpile-into-a-function permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Colloidal@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago Thanks! I hate JavaScript even more now 😄 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Colloidal@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago Thanks! I hate JavaScript even more now 😄 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) No they don't. Enums are actually unique in being the only Typescript feature that requires code gen, and they consider that to have been a mistake. In any case that's not the cause of the difference here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) This isn't true, there are other features that "emit code", that includes: namespaces, decorators and some cases even async / await (when targeting ES5 or ES6). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago Ah yeah I forgot about namespaces. I don't think they're a popular feature. The other two only generate code for backwards compatibility. When targeting the latest JavaScript versions they don't generate anything. Ok decorators are technically still only a proposal so they're slightly jumping the gun there, but the point remains. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) This isn't true, there are other features that "emit code", that includes: namespaces, decorators and some cases even async / await (when targeting ES5 or ES6). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago Ah yeah I forgot about namespaces. I don't think they're a popular feature. The other two only generate code for backwards compatibility. When targeting the latest JavaScript versions they don't generate anything. Ok decorators are technically still only a proposal so they're slightly jumping the gun there, but the point remains. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago Ah yeah I forgot about namespaces. I don't think they're a popular feature. The other two only generate code for backwards compatibility. When targeting the latest JavaScript versions they don't generate anything. Ok decorators are technically still only a proposal so they're slightly jumping the gun there, but the point remains. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mbtrhcs@feddit.org 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Only if you choose a lower language level as the target. Given these results I suspect the researchers had it output JS for something like ES5, meaning a bunch of polyfills for old browsers that they didn't include in the JS-native implementation.. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Not really, because this stuff also happens: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/20278095/enums-in-typescript-what-is-the-javascript-code-doing a function call always has an inpact. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mbtrhcs@feddit.org 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Yeah sure, you found the one notorious TypeScript feature that actually emits code, but a) this feature is recommended against and not used much to my knowledge and, more importantly, b) you cannot tell me that you genuinely believe the use of TypeScript enums – which generate extra function calls for a very limited number of operations – will 5x the energy consumption of the entire program. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago This isn't true, there are other features that "emit code", that includes: namespaces, decorators and some cases even async / await (when targeting ES5 or ES6). permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Not really, because this stuff also happens: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/20278095/enums-in-typescript-what-is-the-javascript-code-doing a function call always has an inpact. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mbtrhcs@feddit.org 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Yeah sure, you found the one notorious TypeScript feature that actually emits code, but a) this feature is recommended against and not used much to my knowledge and, more importantly, b) you cannot tell me that you genuinely believe the use of TypeScript enums – which generate extra function calls for a very limited number of operations – will 5x the energy consumption of the entire program. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago This isn't true, there are other features that "emit code", that includes: namespaces, decorators and some cases even async / await (when targeting ES5 or ES6). permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mbtrhcs@feddit.org 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Yeah sure, you found the one notorious TypeScript feature that actually emits code, but a) this feature is recommended against and not used much to my knowledge and, more importantly, b) you cannot tell me that you genuinely believe the use of TypeScript enums – which generate extra function calls for a very limited number of operations – will 5x the energy consumption of the entire program. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago This isn't true, there are other features that "emit code", that includes: namespaces, decorators and some cases even async / await (when targeting ES5 or ES6). permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago This isn't true, there are other features that "emit code", that includes: namespaces, decorators and some cases even async / await (when targeting ES5 or ES6). permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Feyd@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Care to elaborate? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Here's a good example: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47363996/why-does-an-enum-transpile-into-a-function permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Feyd@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago That is not a good example. That is an immediate function call happening once when the program starts and certainly does not have a large impact like you are suggesting. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Here's a good example: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47363996/why-does-an-enum-transpile-into-a-function permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Feyd@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago That is not a good example. That is an immediate function call happening once when the program starts and certainly does not have a large impact like you are suggesting. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Feyd@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago That is not a good example. That is an immediate function call happening once when the program starts and certainly does not have a large impact like you are suggesting. permalink fedilink source parent