Right yeah the whole project was a total disaster, there's lots of info about all the ways it was badly done. Similar bad ideas as the French basically just putting all the "undesirables" in a bucket on the side. My point is they corrected course about it same as they did in Osdorp, like sure these days gentrification and housing prices in the whole Randstad are just insane so the dynamics are different but I do think it also starts with an actual will to do good urban planning corrections originally. I'm just saying, the Dutch are a bad example because they're some of the best in the world at this stuff.