β² 948 βΌ Linux For Life (lemm.ee) submitted 1 year ago by azha@lemm.ee to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world 169 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[β] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 12 points 1 year ago (2 children) Wasn't the systemd dude a Microsoft employee or something? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] swab148@lemm.ee 20 points 1 year ago (1 child) He wrote Pulseaudio, Avahi, and systemd before joining Microsoft, where he currently works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 11 points 1 year ago (2 children) So that's the story. SystemD feels very Microsofty, though. A big, opinionated, monolith. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] BCsven@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 year ago (1 child) An excellent vid on Why systemD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 11 points 1 year ago* (2 children) Great talk indeed. And I will quickly acknowledge that something had to be done, and that systemd had the courage to innovate and address the issues. I just wish it did so in a more transparent way to the end user. For instance: there's a whole established system of dealing with logs in place. Why build a separate one just for your init system? Why binary? Why even integrate it with your init? I'm not saying storing everything on /var/log and using logrotate is ideal or even covers all use cases. But a log management system is its own thing. That's just an example of how systemd didn't jive with every other subsystem in a Unix like OS. It could have been done in a Unix way - small cohesive tools that are good at one job and can be combined to do more together. That's where I think he missed the mark when dismissing the monolithic criticism by saying "it's not a single binary so it's not monolithic". Its philosophy is monolithic. That said, I use systemd on my machines because that's what my do uses and I don't think it's a reason to swap distros. For the same reason I use Linux and not a micro kernel. I.e. philosophy is important, but implementation is importanter. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] BCsven@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago While monolithic may not be the keep is simple rule aimed for in originally in Unix/Linux, I wonder if it even matters....is there something really gained by init systems that make a difference for the average Linux user? permalink fedilink source parent [β] silasmariner@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago . philosophy is important, but implementation is importanter Yes. This is the key permalink fedilink source parent [β] silasmariner@programming.dev 5 points 1 year ago One task lifecycle management tool to bring them all, one tool to find them. One tool to rule them all and in the darkness bind them. permalink fedilink source parent [β] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) to be honest if that happens its better to understand why that happens, instead of just pulling the plug. maybe a larger program (like firefox) is still exiting and in the middle of saving the session and closing databases. if you pull the plug, it'll corrupt its data, it'll forget your opened tabs and whatnot and you'll be angry permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) I'm afraid you answered the wrong comment. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) well, yeah, maybe it should have gone to the parent comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 1 point 1 year ago Happens. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] swab148@lemm.ee 20 points 1 year ago (1 child) He wrote Pulseaudio, Avahi, and systemd before joining Microsoft, where he currently works. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 11 points 1 year ago (2 children) So that's the story. SystemD feels very Microsofty, though. A big, opinionated, monolith. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] BCsven@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 year ago (1 child) An excellent vid on Why systemD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 11 points 1 year ago* (2 children) Great talk indeed. And I will quickly acknowledge that something had to be done, and that systemd had the courage to innovate and address the issues. I just wish it did so in a more transparent way to the end user. For instance: there's a whole established system of dealing with logs in place. Why build a separate one just for your init system? Why binary? Why even integrate it with your init? I'm not saying storing everything on /var/log and using logrotate is ideal or even covers all use cases. But a log management system is its own thing. That's just an example of how systemd didn't jive with every other subsystem in a Unix like OS. It could have been done in a Unix way - small cohesive tools that are good at one job and can be combined to do more together. That's where I think he missed the mark when dismissing the monolithic criticism by saying "it's not a single binary so it's not monolithic". Its philosophy is monolithic. That said, I use systemd on my machines because that's what my do uses and I don't think it's a reason to swap distros. For the same reason I use Linux and not a micro kernel. I.e. philosophy is important, but implementation is importanter. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] BCsven@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago While monolithic may not be the keep is simple rule aimed for in originally in Unix/Linux, I wonder if it even matters....is there something really gained by init systems that make a difference for the average Linux user? permalink fedilink source parent [β] silasmariner@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago . philosophy is important, but implementation is importanter Yes. This is the key permalink fedilink source parent [β] silasmariner@programming.dev 5 points 1 year ago One task lifecycle management tool to bring them all, one tool to find them. One tool to rule them all and in the darkness bind them. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 11 points 1 year ago (2 children) So that's the story. SystemD feels very Microsofty, though. A big, opinionated, monolith. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] BCsven@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 year ago (1 child) An excellent vid on Why systemD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 11 points 1 year ago* (2 children) Great talk indeed. And I will quickly acknowledge that something had to be done, and that systemd had the courage to innovate and address the issues. I just wish it did so in a more transparent way to the end user. For instance: there's a whole established system of dealing with logs in place. Why build a separate one just for your init system? Why binary? Why even integrate it with your init? I'm not saying storing everything on /var/log and using logrotate is ideal or even covers all use cases. But a log management system is its own thing. That's just an example of how systemd didn't jive with every other subsystem in a Unix like OS. It could have been done in a Unix way - small cohesive tools that are good at one job and can be combined to do more together. That's where I think he missed the mark when dismissing the monolithic criticism by saying "it's not a single binary so it's not monolithic". Its philosophy is monolithic. That said, I use systemd on my machines because that's what my do uses and I don't think it's a reason to swap distros. For the same reason I use Linux and not a micro kernel. I.e. philosophy is important, but implementation is importanter. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] BCsven@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago While monolithic may not be the keep is simple rule aimed for in originally in Unix/Linux, I wonder if it even matters....is there something really gained by init systems that make a difference for the average Linux user? permalink fedilink source parent [β] silasmariner@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago . philosophy is important, but implementation is importanter Yes. This is the key permalink fedilink source parent [β] silasmariner@programming.dev 5 points 1 year ago One task lifecycle management tool to bring them all, one tool to find them. One tool to rule them all and in the darkness bind them. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] BCsven@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 year ago (1 child) An excellent vid on Why systemD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 11 points 1 year ago* (2 children) Great talk indeed. And I will quickly acknowledge that something had to be done, and that systemd had the courage to innovate and address the issues. I just wish it did so in a more transparent way to the end user. For instance: there's a whole established system of dealing with logs in place. Why build a separate one just for your init system? Why binary? Why even integrate it with your init? I'm not saying storing everything on /var/log and using logrotate is ideal or even covers all use cases. But a log management system is its own thing. That's just an example of how systemd didn't jive with every other subsystem in a Unix like OS. It could have been done in a Unix way - small cohesive tools that are good at one job and can be combined to do more together. That's where I think he missed the mark when dismissing the monolithic criticism by saying "it's not a single binary so it's not monolithic". Its philosophy is monolithic. That said, I use systemd on my machines because that's what my do uses and I don't think it's a reason to swap distros. For the same reason I use Linux and not a micro kernel. I.e. philosophy is important, but implementation is importanter. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] BCsven@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago While monolithic may not be the keep is simple rule aimed for in originally in Unix/Linux, I wonder if it even matters....is there something really gained by init systems that make a difference for the average Linux user? permalink fedilink source parent [β] silasmariner@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago . philosophy is important, but implementation is importanter Yes. This is the key permalink fedilink source parent
[β] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 11 points 1 year ago* (2 children) Great talk indeed. And I will quickly acknowledge that something had to be done, and that systemd had the courage to innovate and address the issues. I just wish it did so in a more transparent way to the end user. For instance: there's a whole established system of dealing with logs in place. Why build a separate one just for your init system? Why binary? Why even integrate it with your init? I'm not saying storing everything on /var/log and using logrotate is ideal or even covers all use cases. But a log management system is its own thing. That's just an example of how systemd didn't jive with every other subsystem in a Unix like OS. It could have been done in a Unix way - small cohesive tools that are good at one job and can be combined to do more together. That's where I think he missed the mark when dismissing the monolithic criticism by saying "it's not a single binary so it's not monolithic". Its philosophy is monolithic. That said, I use systemd on my machines because that's what my do uses and I don't think it's a reason to swap distros. For the same reason I use Linux and not a micro kernel. I.e. philosophy is important, but implementation is importanter. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] BCsven@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago While monolithic may not be the keep is simple rule aimed for in originally in Unix/Linux, I wonder if it even matters....is there something really gained by init systems that make a difference for the average Linux user? permalink fedilink source parent [β] silasmariner@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago . philosophy is important, but implementation is importanter Yes. This is the key permalink fedilink source parent
[β] BCsven@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago While monolithic may not be the keep is simple rule aimed for in originally in Unix/Linux, I wonder if it even matters....is there something really gained by init systems that make a difference for the average Linux user? permalink fedilink source parent
[β] silasmariner@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago . philosophy is important, but implementation is importanter Yes. This is the key permalink fedilink source parent
[β] silasmariner@programming.dev 5 points 1 year ago One task lifecycle management tool to bring them all, one tool to find them. One tool to rule them all and in the darkness bind them. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) to be honest if that happens its better to understand why that happens, instead of just pulling the plug. maybe a larger program (like firefox) is still exiting and in the middle of saving the session and closing databases. if you pull the plug, it'll corrupt its data, it'll forget your opened tabs and whatnot and you'll be angry permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) I'm afraid you answered the wrong comment. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) well, yeah, maybe it should have gone to the parent comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 1 point 1 year ago Happens. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) I'm afraid you answered the wrong comment. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) well, yeah, maybe it should have gone to the parent comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 1 point 1 year ago Happens. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) well, yeah, maybe it should have gone to the parent comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 1 point 1 year ago Happens. permalink fedilink source parent