▲ 421 ▼ A.I. tools fueled a 34% spike in Microsoft’s water consumption, and one city with its data centers is concerned about the effect on residential supply (fortune.com) submitted 2 years ago by floofloof@lemmy.ca to c/technology@lemmy.world 53 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] bladerunnerspider@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago (3 children) Dirty water is bad for cooling equipment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Zarxrax@lemmy.world 25 points 2 years ago (3 children) Well, building on that question, why do they need a constant supply of clean water? My desktop PC has a water cooler, and it just recirculates the same water. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 37 points 2 years ago (1 child) Because that's expensive to build on this scale. They'd have to cool the water back down again. It's cheaper to just run cold tapwater in at a fast rate, and dump the hot water intothe sewer. Which is why we need laws that go after industries that use insane amounts of water, if we don't it causes shortages and everyone's rate to go up permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Nougat@kbin.social 14 points 2 years ago (3 children) It’s cheaper to just run cold tapwater in at a fast rate, and dump the hot water into the sewer. There should be a cost to corporations using municipal water supplies for purposes unrelated to direct consumption for drinking, cooking, washing, toilets. You shouldn't be able to use it for cooling only, and you shouldn't be able to bottle and resell it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] MelodiousFunk@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) you shouldn't be able to bottle and resell it. Dasani and Aquafina in shambles permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Noodle07@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Nestlé heavy breathing permalink fedilink source parent [–] brlemworld@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago We should make it exponentially more expensive the more you use. permalink fedilink source parent [–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) There's probably some alternate uses for the heat if these things were well designed. There's some building in denver that is near a major sewer and in the winter they use a heat exchanger to extract that energy and use it to heat the building. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Nah, it's because of the volume. You don't cool down hot water with the same amount of cool water. You use a shit ton of cool water, because the larger the difference in temps the faster the heat exchange. So the discharge isn't water that's really hot. It's just warmer than when it went in. Maybe 5-10 degrees, which is enough for a negative environmental impact if constantly discharged into a lake/ocean/river, but not hot enough to be good for anything. They could do large underground reserve for cold water, cool their servers with it, then dump it into a second tank that eventually cools and is added to the reserve. It's not complicated, but it is a huge upfront cost. Companies aren't going to do it when they can pay a fraction of the cost even tho it fucks over everyone else. This is capitalism, we need regulations forcing them to do the right thing over the cheap thing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I suppose that's very true. But it could be done - if a data center needs megawatts of cooling and is in an area where buildings need to be heated in the winter, then there should be a legal obligation to not just dump that heat. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Pumping 80 degree water outside of a building in winter isn't going to help anyone... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago That's right in the range for subfloor heating, obviously a question of whether or not you can get it somewhere that you need it permalink fedilink source parent [–] netburnr@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago Sounds like they are using evaporation cooling towers for the air chillers. permalink fedilink source parent [–] kitonthenet@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago It’s evaporative cooling, big cooling towers permalink fedilink source parent [–] kalleboo@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago Power plants use lake water directly for cooling - they use a heat exchanger permalink fedilink source parent [+] GigglyBobble@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Zarxrax@lemmy.world 25 points 2 years ago (3 children) Well, building on that question, why do they need a constant supply of clean water? My desktop PC has a water cooler, and it just recirculates the same water. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 37 points 2 years ago (1 child) Because that's expensive to build on this scale. They'd have to cool the water back down again. It's cheaper to just run cold tapwater in at a fast rate, and dump the hot water intothe sewer. Which is why we need laws that go after industries that use insane amounts of water, if we don't it causes shortages and everyone's rate to go up permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Nougat@kbin.social 14 points 2 years ago (3 children) It’s cheaper to just run cold tapwater in at a fast rate, and dump the hot water into the sewer. There should be a cost to corporations using municipal water supplies for purposes unrelated to direct consumption for drinking, cooking, washing, toilets. You shouldn't be able to use it for cooling only, and you shouldn't be able to bottle and resell it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] MelodiousFunk@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) you shouldn't be able to bottle and resell it. Dasani and Aquafina in shambles permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Noodle07@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Nestlé heavy breathing permalink fedilink source parent [–] brlemworld@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago We should make it exponentially more expensive the more you use. permalink fedilink source parent [–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) There's probably some alternate uses for the heat if these things were well designed. There's some building in denver that is near a major sewer and in the winter they use a heat exchanger to extract that energy and use it to heat the building. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Nah, it's because of the volume. You don't cool down hot water with the same amount of cool water. You use a shit ton of cool water, because the larger the difference in temps the faster the heat exchange. So the discharge isn't water that's really hot. It's just warmer than when it went in. Maybe 5-10 degrees, which is enough for a negative environmental impact if constantly discharged into a lake/ocean/river, but not hot enough to be good for anything. They could do large underground reserve for cold water, cool their servers with it, then dump it into a second tank that eventually cools and is added to the reserve. It's not complicated, but it is a huge upfront cost. Companies aren't going to do it when they can pay a fraction of the cost even tho it fucks over everyone else. This is capitalism, we need regulations forcing them to do the right thing over the cheap thing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I suppose that's very true. But it could be done - if a data center needs megawatts of cooling and is in an area where buildings need to be heated in the winter, then there should be a legal obligation to not just dump that heat. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Pumping 80 degree water outside of a building in winter isn't going to help anyone... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago That's right in the range for subfloor heating, obviously a question of whether or not you can get it somewhere that you need it permalink fedilink source parent [–] netburnr@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago Sounds like they are using evaporation cooling towers for the air chillers. permalink fedilink source parent [–] kitonthenet@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago It’s evaporative cooling, big cooling towers permalink fedilink source parent
[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 37 points 2 years ago (1 child) Because that's expensive to build on this scale. They'd have to cool the water back down again. It's cheaper to just run cold tapwater in at a fast rate, and dump the hot water intothe sewer. Which is why we need laws that go after industries that use insane amounts of water, if we don't it causes shortages and everyone's rate to go up permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Nougat@kbin.social 14 points 2 years ago (3 children) It’s cheaper to just run cold tapwater in at a fast rate, and dump the hot water into the sewer. There should be a cost to corporations using municipal water supplies for purposes unrelated to direct consumption for drinking, cooking, washing, toilets. You shouldn't be able to use it for cooling only, and you shouldn't be able to bottle and resell it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] MelodiousFunk@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) you shouldn't be able to bottle and resell it. Dasani and Aquafina in shambles permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Noodle07@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Nestlé heavy breathing permalink fedilink source parent [–] brlemworld@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago We should make it exponentially more expensive the more you use. permalink fedilink source parent [–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) There's probably some alternate uses for the heat if these things were well designed. There's some building in denver that is near a major sewer and in the winter they use a heat exchanger to extract that energy and use it to heat the building. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Nah, it's because of the volume. You don't cool down hot water with the same amount of cool water. You use a shit ton of cool water, because the larger the difference in temps the faster the heat exchange. So the discharge isn't water that's really hot. It's just warmer than when it went in. Maybe 5-10 degrees, which is enough for a negative environmental impact if constantly discharged into a lake/ocean/river, but not hot enough to be good for anything. They could do large underground reserve for cold water, cool their servers with it, then dump it into a second tank that eventually cools and is added to the reserve. It's not complicated, but it is a huge upfront cost. Companies aren't going to do it when they can pay a fraction of the cost even tho it fucks over everyone else. This is capitalism, we need regulations forcing them to do the right thing over the cheap thing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I suppose that's very true. But it could be done - if a data center needs megawatts of cooling and is in an area where buildings need to be heated in the winter, then there should be a legal obligation to not just dump that heat. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Pumping 80 degree water outside of a building in winter isn't going to help anyone... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago That's right in the range for subfloor heating, obviously a question of whether or not you can get it somewhere that you need it permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Nougat@kbin.social 14 points 2 years ago (3 children) It’s cheaper to just run cold tapwater in at a fast rate, and dump the hot water into the sewer. There should be a cost to corporations using municipal water supplies for purposes unrelated to direct consumption for drinking, cooking, washing, toilets. You shouldn't be able to use it for cooling only, and you shouldn't be able to bottle and resell it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] MelodiousFunk@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) you shouldn't be able to bottle and resell it. Dasani and Aquafina in shambles permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Noodle07@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Nestlé heavy breathing permalink fedilink source parent [–] brlemworld@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago We should make it exponentially more expensive the more you use. permalink fedilink source parent [–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) There's probably some alternate uses for the heat if these things were well designed. There's some building in denver that is near a major sewer and in the winter they use a heat exchanger to extract that energy and use it to heat the building. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Nah, it's because of the volume. You don't cool down hot water with the same amount of cool water. You use a shit ton of cool water, because the larger the difference in temps the faster the heat exchange. So the discharge isn't water that's really hot. It's just warmer than when it went in. Maybe 5-10 degrees, which is enough for a negative environmental impact if constantly discharged into a lake/ocean/river, but not hot enough to be good for anything. They could do large underground reserve for cold water, cool their servers with it, then dump it into a second tank that eventually cools and is added to the reserve. It's not complicated, but it is a huge upfront cost. Companies aren't going to do it when they can pay a fraction of the cost even tho it fucks over everyone else. This is capitalism, we need regulations forcing them to do the right thing over the cheap thing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I suppose that's very true. But it could be done - if a data center needs megawatts of cooling and is in an area where buildings need to be heated in the winter, then there should be a legal obligation to not just dump that heat. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Pumping 80 degree water outside of a building in winter isn't going to help anyone... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago That's right in the range for subfloor heating, obviously a question of whether or not you can get it somewhere that you need it permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MelodiousFunk@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) you shouldn't be able to bottle and resell it. Dasani and Aquafina in shambles permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Noodle07@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Nestlé heavy breathing permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Noodle07@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Nestlé heavy breathing permalink fedilink source parent
[–] brlemworld@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago We should make it exponentially more expensive the more you use. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) There's probably some alternate uses for the heat if these things were well designed. There's some building in denver that is near a major sewer and in the winter they use a heat exchanger to extract that energy and use it to heat the building. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Nah, it's because of the volume. You don't cool down hot water with the same amount of cool water. You use a shit ton of cool water, because the larger the difference in temps the faster the heat exchange. So the discharge isn't water that's really hot. It's just warmer than when it went in. Maybe 5-10 degrees, which is enough for a negative environmental impact if constantly discharged into a lake/ocean/river, but not hot enough to be good for anything. They could do large underground reserve for cold water, cool their servers with it, then dump it into a second tank that eventually cools and is added to the reserve. It's not complicated, but it is a huge upfront cost. Companies aren't going to do it when they can pay a fraction of the cost even tho it fucks over everyone else. This is capitalism, we need regulations forcing them to do the right thing over the cheap thing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I suppose that's very true. But it could be done - if a data center needs megawatts of cooling and is in an area where buildings need to be heated in the winter, then there should be a legal obligation to not just dump that heat. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Pumping 80 degree water outside of a building in winter isn't going to help anyone... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago That's right in the range for subfloor heating, obviously a question of whether or not you can get it somewhere that you need it permalink fedilink source parent
[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Nah, it's because of the volume. You don't cool down hot water with the same amount of cool water. You use a shit ton of cool water, because the larger the difference in temps the faster the heat exchange. So the discharge isn't water that's really hot. It's just warmer than when it went in. Maybe 5-10 degrees, which is enough for a negative environmental impact if constantly discharged into a lake/ocean/river, but not hot enough to be good for anything. They could do large underground reserve for cold water, cool their servers with it, then dump it into a second tank that eventually cools and is added to the reserve. It's not complicated, but it is a huge upfront cost. Companies aren't going to do it when they can pay a fraction of the cost even tho it fucks over everyone else. This is capitalism, we need regulations forcing them to do the right thing over the cheap thing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I suppose that's very true. But it could be done - if a data center needs megawatts of cooling and is in an area where buildings need to be heated in the winter, then there should be a legal obligation to not just dump that heat. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Pumping 80 degree water outside of a building in winter isn't going to help anyone... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago That's right in the range for subfloor heating, obviously a question of whether or not you can get it somewhere that you need it permalink fedilink source parent
[–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I suppose that's very true. But it could be done - if a data center needs megawatts of cooling and is in an area where buildings need to be heated in the winter, then there should be a legal obligation to not just dump that heat. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Pumping 80 degree water outside of a building in winter isn't going to help anyone... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago That's right in the range for subfloor heating, obviously a question of whether or not you can get it somewhere that you need it permalink fedilink source parent
[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Pumping 80 degree water outside of a building in winter isn't going to help anyone... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago That's right in the range for subfloor heating, obviously a question of whether or not you can get it somewhere that you need it permalink fedilink source parent
[–] grahamsz@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago That's right in the range for subfloor heating, obviously a question of whether or not you can get it somewhere that you need it permalink fedilink source parent
[–] netburnr@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago Sounds like they are using evaporation cooling towers for the air chillers. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] kitonthenet@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago It’s evaporative cooling, big cooling towers permalink fedilink source parent
[–] kalleboo@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago Power plants use lake water directly for cooling - they use a heat exchanger permalink fedilink source parent