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[–] lurch@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The green party (Bündnis 90/Die Grünen) is moderate left and fully supporrs Ukraine. I'm probably gonna vote for them. The war is only going a few years yet, so I wouldn't call it a "forever war". I've seen a lot of wars come and go in my lifetime and I think this one will end in a few more years or less. It's just very important to teach russia a lesson, they can't just attack others without serious consequences. It's not just important for Ukraines future, but for all mankind. Ukraine and the heroes risking and giving their life on the battlefield for our future deserve our full support for teaching russia that lesson. If the war ends before russia learns that, they will soon attack another friendly neighbour, so it's either fight now or fight even more later. It's unfortunate, but sometimes you just gotta resist and fight back for a better future.

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[–] volodya_ilich@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago

The green party is as bellicist as it gets. It supported every single military intervention INCLUDING IRAQ. You guys are literally voting for the baddies

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[+] liyunxiao@sh.itjust.works -9 points 2 years ago (2 children)

It's incredibly easy to teach others lessons when you have nothing at risk, now or in the future.

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[–] lurch@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Ukraine risks a lot to teach that lesson and they have my full support. It's not easy tho, because there are people like you trying to send us all to our doom.

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[+] liyunxiao@sh.itjust.works -8 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

Yes, it's easy to teach lessons when you are taking no risk and losing nothing.

It's not so great for the Ukrainians who were forcibly drafted at the end of a gun, so Germany can teach Russia a lesson.

If you think any of nuclear Europe is ever at any risk from Russia, you're too stupid to breathe, much less have an opinion on the matter.

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[–] msage@programming.dev 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

You are arguing in super-bad faith.

No one is forcing Ukraine to right but Russia.

How in your mind does not sending them help teach anyone a lesson? Fuck allies who are defending themselves?

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[+] liyunxiao@sh.itjust.works -8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

No, I'm disagreeing with you. That's not arguing in bad faith and trying to claim that is simply nonsense to protect your echo chamber generated views.

You're right, no one is forcing Ukraine to fight Russia, except every international aid agency. Oh and Black Rock now that they've purchased large swaths of Ukrainian land. But more importantly Ukraine isn't it's people. It's never been a democratic state by any standards, until 2014 it was downright considered despotic. But that government that does not have consent from the majority of its people is forcibly conscripting men off the street to fight and die in a war they clearly don't want to fight. While this is happening the Ukrainian government has massively enriched itself.

Not sending them help, and instead treating them like any other war victim would be the fair thing. Take in the refugees. Resettle anyone that doesn't want to speak Russian or go to the meat grinder. Sanction Russia.

Ukraine isn't an ally to anyone, it's an investment opportunity for billionaires. That's about it. Let's not depopulate it and let the land be given away.

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[+] Iapar@feddit.org 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

[deleted]

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[–] liyunxiao@sh.itjust.works -3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

...no Patrick, pointing out problems in your argument is not bad faith or a strawman.

If you think its important, stop being a fucking sniveling coward and go fight. You people have no problem invading brown, black, and Asian people that threaten your master races rule over the world, but since it's someone that can fight back you want to sacrifice someone else to do it.

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[+] Iapar@feddit.org 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

[deleted]

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[–] msage@programming.dev 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Wow, where from did you get your info?

Ukraine government does not have majority? Forcibly conscripting? That's Russia, you got your wires crossed.

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[–] liyunxiao@sh.itjust.works -3 points 2 years ago

Sure sure. Anyway since there's videos and news stories on the first page of Google proving me right you enjoy being propagandized by a nation that's still more corrupt than any EU or Asian country.

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[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

The risk for not helping the Ukrainians is that this will set precedence the collapse of the international order and institution that prevented major wars since World War 2, because the international charter explicitly forbids violating another nation's sovereignty. If no one speaks out or support Ukraine, then it will be you and your loved ones next in the next world war.

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[–] liyunxiao@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Don't you fucking dare recite the anti liberal poem against me from a .world account.

Also, what fucking bullshit are you speaking? Nearly every EU country has violated no less than a dozen countries since WWII. If we extend that to the West in general then you people have been the most pervasive war mongers in modern history.

Oh right, those countries weren't majority white. They don't count.

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[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

This is the most ridiculous comment from an obvious Krembot I have seen in a long time. Thanks for the laugh!

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[–] liyunxiao@sh.itjust.works -1 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Yes, every one that disagrees with you are ~~NPCs~~ bots. You're the real humans and the only ones that exist. All those damn ~~coloureds~~ non westerners just aren't human you know.

Man you guys have been mask off lately.

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[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

A useful idiot is still a Krembot sock puppet. The former was coined after all to denote those who parrot Kremlin propaganda regardless of ideology or motivations.

Man, you guys have been PUTINg too much clown make-up lately. Just because the West is bad, it doesn't give Russia any excuse.

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[–] liyunxiao@sh.itjust.works -2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Russia is just the West. There is no difference between Russia and the US or any other fascist state. All capitalists are the same, just at different stages of fascism.

I don't like Russia any more than you, I just don't care to see the West doing full ethnic cleansing using the Russian Boogeyman so western companies can control Ukraine's land.

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[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

Ukraine wants to align with the West. Of course Western companies will want to do business there.

Sure bud, you hate both Russia and West but say Russia is the boogeyman even though they are the ones who invaded another country unprovoked.

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[–] liyunxiao@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

'unprovoked' is just false on its face. Iraq was invaded without provocation, Libya, around 70 other countries in the last 40 years.

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[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

And so you believe that Ukraine deserves to be invaded by Russia since the West did the same?

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[–] liyunxiao@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

No I think helping them is racist and hypocritical, given the long history of the West doing far, far worse than Russia.

All of you are capitalist liberal democracies that constantly invade and plunder whoever you like. You're only mad at Russia because most Ukrainians are white. You're not supposed to invade the white ones.

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[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child)

People have called out the invasion of Iraq and Libya. The protest against the former has been in the Guiness World Record as the biggest demonstration across the world. You must be living under the rock for the past twenty years if you think Westerners did not care.

Fwiw, the election of right populist politicians in recent years in the West has been a reaction to hypocritical Western foreign policies and mismanaged globalisation. These politicians run on being nativist. But if history has taught us anything, the right wing nativists that claim to be anti-globalist and wants withdraw from international stage, are the same ones who believe that "might makes right", and will bully smaller countries or fabricate reasons to go to war. The difference, however, is that opposition tend to be arrested unlike in liberal countries.

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[–] liyunxiao@sh.itjust.works -1 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Call out and provide several times the GDP of a nation in arms and soldiers are two different things. The countries in the West did not care, they did it. Some people in the West agreed with the entire rest of the world the West is fucked up and the single greatest threat to global peace, but that changes nothing since you people don't have real democracy, just liberal democracy.

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[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

Except supporting Ukraine is the right one out of many. The faux concern you are expressing on Ukrainians is evident of usual Kremlin narrative.

Well, people are electing right wing populists as a reaction to neoliberal policies, so that is still democracy. Judging from your username, you must be living in a country where you only get to vote for only one party. And not following the party line will get you intimidated, arrested, or killed even. You may not be living under the rock in the past year, but you are certainly being fed with propaganda.

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[–] liyunxiao@sh.itjust.works -2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

You can just say you have no idea how the Chinese government works instead of making yourself look stupid. As far as the rest of your nonsense the only difference is Ukraine is white.

That's the only one.

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[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

You can believe whatever CCP says. No one is stopping you since your life is on the line if you disagree. At least I don't have to worry about potential G-men knocking on the door in the middle of the night for saying the wrong thing.